Senora Kirchner-Fernandez' lastest
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rmartinbuenosaires
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Pericles:
We are not talking about other countries. We are taking about Argentina. That is what the forum is about. Stop taking the Argentine "manera" and blaming other countries as an excuse. Surely you have poured over my various responses to try and manipulate any information in your favor. I have, over time, given several accounts of corruption here. Can you not read? Look at the beginning points of this thread.
Recently, the Belgian High Court seized the bank account of money destined to manage the expenses of the Argentine Embassy. Why? The court accepted grievances presented by holders of deflated Argentine bonds. Remember? Argentina regularly manipulates official data in their favor so they don't have to pay out money to the bond holders. I suppose you believe I made that up too. Anyway...it is only about 100,000 Euros but it is still a blow on a country's credibility. The Argentine government will exact revenge. A similar situation happened in Spain. I suppose Belgium and Spain, modern democracies, are lying.
The pressure is mounting and the current political machine here does not know quite how to play this one. This is why they are so cozy with Chavez (he does not deserve a "Mr." in front of his name). What do you think they talk about? "Te gusta dulce de leche?!" They are scheming plans to form coalitions and control over other Latin American nations to create their beautiful "People's Revolution of the Downtrodden". These individuals are full of resentment and hate going back to the 70's. They are disenchanted and hate the fact they never "belonged". At the end of the day, they will steal what they effectively believed that which was "denied" them. They are not stupid. They are pure evil. They (The Kirchner Company) had every tool and opportunity to get the country on the right path but they systematically destroyed every avenue without thinking about the future. Guesss they were going to use 12 pagos to pay off their credit every month. They NEED the desperate and ignorant to achieve their goals and they have bought it. The military is completely disarmed so no oppostion from that side. Who is going to stop them? The Recoleta crowd with four "very important" last names banging on their pots and pans from their balconies on Alvear? It is the perfect storm.
Lastly...again, according to you, My dear Pericles....IF the U.S. is SO evil, EXPLAIN TO ME why every nation who has a castrophe or natural disaster look first to the U.S. for help and receive it? Even Iran in the aftermath of a devastating earthquake was offered unconditional assistance. Where did Argentina turn when the mismanaged economy collapsed in 2001? You got it...the U.S. and IMF. Naturally the common consensus here is that the U.S. was to blame for their economic failures. Always blame the more powerful for your troubles and try to manipulate, claw and cheat your way to not paying money back.
Argentina , even in good times, NEVER donated one centavo to assist anyone without self-interest.
I believe you are channeling sacred Evita too much, who coincidently "was in bed with the Nazis" and obtained stolen money from them.
I am done on this topic. You may wish to comment further but I am tired of using reasoning. You will "attempt" to downplay my comments naturally. Good Luck.
We are not talking about other countries. We are taking about Argentina. That is what the forum is about. Stop taking the Argentine "manera" and blaming other countries as an excuse. Surely you have poured over my various responses to try and manipulate any information in your favor. I have, over time, given several accounts of corruption here. Can you not read? Look at the beginning points of this thread.
Recently, the Belgian High Court seized the bank account of money destined to manage the expenses of the Argentine Embassy. Why? The court accepted grievances presented by holders of deflated Argentine bonds. Remember? Argentina regularly manipulates official data in their favor so they don't have to pay out money to the bond holders. I suppose you believe I made that up too. Anyway...it is only about 100,000 Euros but it is still a blow on a country's credibility. The Argentine government will exact revenge. A similar situation happened in Spain. I suppose Belgium and Spain, modern democracies, are lying.
The pressure is mounting and the current political machine here does not know quite how to play this one. This is why they are so cozy with Chavez (he does not deserve a "Mr." in front of his name). What do you think they talk about? "Te gusta dulce de leche?!" They are scheming plans to form coalitions and control over other Latin American nations to create their beautiful "People's Revolution of the Downtrodden". These individuals are full of resentment and hate going back to the 70's. They are disenchanted and hate the fact they never "belonged". At the end of the day, they will steal what they effectively believed that which was "denied" them. They are not stupid. They are pure evil. They (The Kirchner Company) had every tool and opportunity to get the country on the right path but they systematically destroyed every avenue without thinking about the future. Guesss they were going to use 12 pagos to pay off their credit every month. They NEED the desperate and ignorant to achieve their goals and they have bought it. The military is completely disarmed so no oppostion from that side. Who is going to stop them? The Recoleta crowd with four "very important" last names banging on their pots and pans from their balconies on Alvear? It is the perfect storm.
Lastly...again, according to you, My dear Pericles....IF the U.S. is SO evil, EXPLAIN TO ME why every nation who has a castrophe or natural disaster look first to the U.S. for help and receive it? Even Iran in the aftermath of a devastating earthquake was offered unconditional assistance. Where did Argentina turn when the mismanaged economy collapsed in 2001? You got it...the U.S. and IMF. Naturally the common consensus here is that the U.S. was to blame for their economic failures. Always blame the more powerful for your troubles and try to manipulate, claw and cheat your way to not paying money back.
Argentina , even in good times, NEVER donated one centavo to assist anyone without self-interest.
I believe you are channeling sacred Evita too much, who coincidently "was in bed with the Nazis" and obtained stolen money from them.
I am done on this topic. You may wish to comment further but I am tired of using reasoning. You will "attempt" to downplay my comments naturally. Good Luck.
I'm largely sympathetic with what I understand to be Pericles's views, but admiration for a pacific Argentina would be misplaced.
Really, to find a purely peace-loving country, you'd need to look to Andorra or Monaco -- wait, aren't those rifles that the guards are carrying in Monte Carlo?
Several (just talk to a Paraguayan, for example). Most recently, and in our own lifetimes, British territory in the Falklands. (We won't even talk about a centuries-long "pacification" of the indigenes that was far bloodier than in Canada or the United States.)pericles said:
Really, to find a purely peace-loving country, you'd need to look to Andorra or Monaco -- wait, aren't those rifles that the guards are carrying in Monte Carlo?
rmartinbuenosaires
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From Forbes: The latest report on corrupt countries:
1. Least Corrupt - Iceland
17. USA (Between Germany and France)
97. Argentina (Shared with Algeria, Madagascar and Mozambique)
Figure it out for yourself.
1. Least Corrupt - Iceland
17. USA (Between Germany and France)
97. Argentina (Shared with Algeria, Madagascar and Mozambique)
Figure it out for yourself.
perry
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Martin
You have not answered my question is Argentina more corrupt than the USA and why ? I believe that the members here like to have the answer to this simple question.
A few points brought up by your last post is that Argentina never turned to the IMF after its last crash and everyone who lived through that time remembered that they turned against the IMF and blamed them for their financial crash . For many who are not aware the IMF lent billions of dollars to the Menem government at high interest rates and pegged the peso to the dollar causing a bubble effect in the economy . The IMF said in 1999 that the Argentina was rock solid and good economic progress was expected in the coming years . Of course we all know just one year later we had the financial crash. Unemployment was endemic in the late 1990s and exports were one fifth what they are today due to the dollar-peso policy.
In 2005 Nestor Kirchner paid back all the debt to the IMF to the suprise of many world commentators. Remember that since 2001 we had great growth in Argentina of over 8 percent per annum and were the second fastest growing economy of the world.
In regards to Argentina donating money to other countries they do their best in difficult circumstances and when disaster strucks in South America their response has always been excellent and fast. The USA is technically bankrupt and has printed over 10 trillion dollars of currency this year . Money that has not been earnt or produced . I ask the members here if Argentina could print just 1 trillion dollars of US currency and have it accepted by world governments Im sure that they would be extremely generous as well . When money has no value it is easy to hand out as witnessed by the debacle going on in the USA with hundreds of billions of dollars given to Bank Chiefs and bankrupt businesses .
The USA is only solvent today because its currency the USA dollar is accepted by World governments as legal tender.
My question Martin if Argentina could print trillions of dollars Im sure that many problems that you note ie. noisy buses, villas miserias and the like could be resolved quickly .
You have not answered my question is Argentina more corrupt than the USA and why ? I believe that the members here like to have the answer to this simple question.
A few points brought up by your last post is that Argentina never turned to the IMF after its last crash and everyone who lived through that time remembered that they turned against the IMF and blamed them for their financial crash . For many who are not aware the IMF lent billions of dollars to the Menem government at high interest rates and pegged the peso to the dollar causing a bubble effect in the economy . The IMF said in 1999 that the Argentina was rock solid and good economic progress was expected in the coming years . Of course we all know just one year later we had the financial crash. Unemployment was endemic in the late 1990s and exports were one fifth what they are today due to the dollar-peso policy.
In 2005 Nestor Kirchner paid back all the debt to the IMF to the suprise of many world commentators. Remember that since 2001 we had great growth in Argentina of over 8 percent per annum and were the second fastest growing economy of the world.
In regards to Argentina donating money to other countries they do their best in difficult circumstances and when disaster strucks in South America their response has always been excellent and fast. The USA is technically bankrupt and has printed over 10 trillion dollars of currency this year . Money that has not been earnt or produced . I ask the members here if Argentina could print just 1 trillion dollars of US currency and have it accepted by world governments Im sure that they would be extremely generous as well . When money has no value it is easy to hand out as witnessed by the debacle going on in the USA with hundreds of billions of dollars given to Bank Chiefs and bankrupt businesses .
The USA is only solvent today because its currency the USA dollar is accepted by World governments as legal tender.
My question Martin if Argentina could print trillions of dollars Im sure that many problems that you note ie. noisy buses, villas miserias and the like could be resolved quickly .
rmartinbuenosaires
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As usual, useless banter. I direct everyone to the front page of today's "La Nacion". The Argentine government is broke. This will lead to another pesofication, printing endless amounts of useless pesos, greater inflation and the enevitable devaluation. The government, despite their screeching for the underclass, has actually spent less than 1% on them yet the uneducated are so pleased that the government was kind enough to nationalize the futbul so they could watch it on TV. God bless their heroine.
Believe whatever you want. Please don't pass me the tainted mate gourd. Whatever you are drinking is laced with something.
Believe whatever you want. Please don't pass me the tainted mate gourd. Whatever you are drinking is laced with something.
nikad
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NK and CK governments were only meant to work in a beneficial world economic situation, they did not do their homework and now we all see the results: despite those great growth numbers, over 30% of the total population is poor ( cannot afford to buy basic food ). I really do not see where all the money went, I cannot understand why after many years of growth poverty grew exponentially, if this is not corruption, what is it? NK and CK both had a social democrat speech but an ultra liberal heart, they increased their personal assets by 158%. NK deposited funds of Santa Cruz in a Swiss bank, while he was the former province governor, and that money was never brought back into the country, what do you call this?
NK and CK are not the only ones responsible for this decline, just the latest. Here you will always see the same people rotating from one party to the other, or gathering in a common political front, union, alliance, blah blah blah, they are always the same ones, going from left to right, to center, to left, up and down but never out of the money making game. And as much as I love my folks, I have to admit that politicians do not come from another planet, they emerge from our society, and is some food for thought.
NK and CK are not the only ones responsible for this decline, just the latest. Here you will always see the same people rotating from one party to the other, or gathering in a common political front, union, alliance, blah blah blah, they are always the same ones, going from left to right, to center, to left, up and down but never out of the money making game. And as much as I love my folks, I have to admit that politicians do not come from another planet, they emerge from our society, and is some food for thought.
rmartinbuenosaires said:
What a joke....La Nacion the worst paper in Argentina by far this paper as Clarin, Perfil, Infobae and some other in variable degrees are the infamous collaborators of the extreme right wing and military juntas in this country any articles from those called "newspapers" are total abalone you may be lucky if can get a maximum of 10% of veracity from them...the rest is rubbish, they are only good to light up the fire for an asado, period. Typical of people who pursue these views. They read only that kind of newspapers for their information, they are the Bibles and the one and only truth for them. I won't be surprised if they are followers of Benny Hinn.
perry
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I believe that the issues in Argentina are not as black and white as portrayed by some here . I agree with Lucas here about La Nacion as it is not a balanced newspaper.
Nikad the money has not gone anywhere as Argentina has 47 Billion dollars of reserves . Not a low amount for a country of our population. In regards to poverty increasing I fully agree with you on this one Nikad as inflation is a huge problem in this society . Drugs have also increased poverty in Buenos Aires in particular as hundreds of thousands get addicted to Paco.
I like to ask you all especially Martin and Nikad what do you expect the Government to do to change the Argentine society? I like concrete answers how they can improve the situation here for the poor .
Unfortunately too much of the opposition in Argentina eg. Elisa Carrio spend all their energies attacking the Government but no energy in presenting a viable alternative . Show us your plans and ideas and then we can talk.
Nikad the money has not gone anywhere as Argentina has 47 Billion dollars of reserves . Not a low amount for a country of our population. In regards to poverty increasing I fully agree with you on this one Nikad as inflation is a huge problem in this society . Drugs have also increased poverty in Buenos Aires in particular as hundreds of thousands get addicted to Paco.
I like to ask you all especially Martin and Nikad what do you expect the Government to do to change the Argentine society? I like concrete answers how they can improve the situation here for the poor .
Unfortunately too much of the opposition in Argentina eg. Elisa Carrio spend all their energies attacking the Government but no energy in presenting a viable alternative . Show us your plans and ideas and then we can talk.
