Senora Kirchner-Fernandez' lastest

[John.St]

Pericles:

We are not talking about other countries. We are taking about Argentina. That is what the forum is about.

Without comparing with other countries the information looses it's meaning.

9.7 out of 100,000 killed in traffic in Italy!

What does that tell us, except the number ought to be zero?

Only when you compare - get a perspective - the figure gets a meaning
(Argentina 20.6, US 14.2, Italy 9.7, Malta 2.8)

 

[John.St]

From Forbes: The latest report on corrupt countries:

1. Least Corrupt - Iceland

17. USA (Between Germany and France)

97. Argentina (Shared with Algeria, Madagascar and Mozambique)

Figure it out for yourself.

International perceived corruption index ( http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table )

Score of 10 is best.

1. New Zealand + Sweden + Danmark - score 9.3.
4. Singapore - score 9.2
5. Finland + Switzerland - score 9.0
.
.
18. USA - score 7.3

Figure it out for yourself - horrible place, this USA - ain't it?

 

[John.St]

If I could change things: I would increase the budget destined to education and health, will lower export taxes, will go for housing plans outside BsAs, will lower vat taxes for basic food items, will lower subsidies for services very gradually, will audit private companies to make sure they re invest a % of their profits like they should.

While I acknowledge that the above are just random ideas, it must be pointed out, that

Increase education budget (good idea) = expenses++
Lower export taxes (good idea) = fiscal provenue--
Lower vat taxes for basic food items (difficult to realize and) = fiscal provenue--
Lower subsidies for services very gradually (also good idea, but slow) expenses-

Every plus expenses and every minus fiscal provenue demands financiation.

 

[BlahBlah]

Increase education budget (good idea) = expenses++

Kick out half of the teachers, increase salary by 100% and invest the remaining cash in books, computers and buildings

There is no need to increase the budget

 

[perry]

Most working class people should have a job and the Government must provide that oportunity for them. Firstly the cartenoros should all be employed as this is a blight on our city and creates a negative image for us who call Buenos Aires home. I believe that many can be employed as street cleaners that work on rotating shifts night and day .
With clean uniforms and a dignified salary their self esteem will improve and Buenos Aires can look very clean finally.

There could easily be 30000 traffic police employed in Argentina to administer the roads and implement fines that will create the revenue needed to employ them. The cost to human life as well as to the community is horrific and must be addressed if we are serious about respecting human life.

All buses should be replaced by modern lines that emit low pollution and moderate levels of noise. The bus system as it stands now is a disgrace for a city of Buenos Aires size and importance.

Government jobs should have an incentive clause in them to increase productivity in the workforce something lacking here . I believe that all businesses should employ incentives with higher wages to the workers who are diligent.

Government housing must be provided that is dignified and at a cost that is affordable consumerate to salaries.

Free medical care should be provided by the State with modern medical equipment and equal treatment for all.

Taxes must be paid be all fairly and equally but with a heavier burden on the wealthy . There is no reason that there should be such huge divisions of wealth in Latin America . Many countries like Finland, Sweden, Norway have excellent systems that create a 90 percent middle class.

All basic necessities ie food, water , electricity , gas must be controlled by government pricing controls. In a country as wealthy in resorces as Argentina this should be possible to implement. By the way I do not also agree that the lands of this country should be turned over to soy farming as this is not a benefit to Argentina or its people in the long term. Other food supplies have deteoriated in the last few years due to this new crop that also is highly pollutive to neighbouring communities.

And lastly Education must be the highest priority of government with a much larger budget to incorporate government schooling that teaches human values and respect for others from a young age. Societies are shaped buy their youth and we must make sure that we give them the best chance for a bright happy future.

 

[John.St]

I have for years wondered why SA (Latin America in general) have huge problems with underdevelopment of most countries, although they have huge resources - e.g. Argentina.

The people of Lat.Am. are as intelligent as everybody else I have met world wide, so the answer must somehow be cultural.

My own answer has gradually ripened through diverse reading of political and economial analysis and many discussions with friends in 7 Lat.Am. countries (Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, Brasil, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile) into five main causes (I admit that I may not understand some hiddden causes):

1. A complete lack of civismo - me, myself and I am not responsible for anyone else or for anything that happens. Why not do whatever pleases me, if everyone else does, why should I have the trouble to ...

3. Nobody in charge in government, province and to some extent also municipality level make long time plans.

4. No long time planning because of the metronome election (click-clack-click-clack), as a protest, of representatives from the opposite party - any opposite party (which simply continue where the previous government left) so no government can sail a straight course for any extended period of time; election and mid-term every two years - thus ensuring that chaos will prevail.

5. In SA there are few, or no, real - i.e. efficient - grass root movements. Everybody is willing to scream, shout, carry banners, throw bottles and stones, burn tires, block the roads, ..., their agression relieving them of frustrations. The politicians' answer is a flood of words but no proper action except for Potemkin facades - why bother, in a week or so the mob has forgotten all about it, business as usual.

In the EU and US grass root movements often have real power - stop doing this-or-that or else ... e.g. the sale of (Español) 'leche maternizada' (mother milk substitute ?) in Africa. Stop those practices or your company will starve to death like the African children do. Result: At first resistance, then - when sales dropped some 25 to 30% in US and EU - followed by total submission and a complete stop of the deplorable practices.

A similar type of action is used against politicians, you won't get reelected so you can no longer grab.

 

[nikad]

While I acknowledge that the above are just random ideas, it must be pointed out, that

Increase education budget (good idea) = expenses++
Lower export taxes (good idea) = fiscal provenue--
Lower vat taxes for basic food items (difficult to realize and) = fiscal provenue--
Lower subsidies for services very gradually (also good idea, but slow) expenses-

Every plus expenses and every minus fiscal provenue demands financiation.

Those are random thoughts, of course I am not a specialist, but I am aware that it all has to stay balanced ( in money terms ) but:

Increase education budget (good idea) = expenses++ >>> optimize resources, use money from those help plans for the poor ( that some use to buy beer ) in the end, kids will have all meals at school and will be learning and becoming better citizens, with hopes and goals, this will also reduce crime and corruption in many levels. Also UBA students will volunteer if they studied for free, so that is money invested coming back right into Education

Lower export taxes (good idea) = fiscal provenue-- Lower taxes is less fiscal revenue, but what if you lower the taxes and you triple or quad the production? I would rather export a load more, with less taxes, more incentives, generates jobs and feeds other industries. Set goals quarterly, and if achieved reduce export taxes.

Lower vat taxes for basic food items (difficult to realize and) = fiscal revenue-- this will be an incentive because people will have more spare money to spend in other industries, and the really poor will have enough to eat decently, the products are easy to identify ( bread, milk, a few cuts of beef, eggs, chicken, a couple of choices of fruit, a couple choices of vegetables, pasta ) it shouldn´t be more than 15 products that everybody will be able to pay for. I will keep the vat on all other food items, if fiscal revenue decreases too much, then at least we will know that everybody is eating!

Lower subsidies for services very gradually (also good idea, but slow) expenses- This are the kind of things that hurt, but if at the same time you push these companies to invest into energy, etc whast they should have, with a larger offer, prices should drop and it won´t be so painful to pay for utilities without subsidies. I understand these can take years

If Argentina does things right, it will attract invests, but the way it is going, I doubt it. When investors see a growing country, with lots of human potential, equal opportunities, with a mid and long term plan, with solid institutions and fair clear rules, it is like a magnet, imho.

 

[soulskier]

Hey, this thread is really coming along nicely. I think if the leaders that be read it, some positive steps could be made. Keep up the good work everyone!

 

[nikad]

I have for years wondered why SA (Latin America in general) have huge problems with underdevelopment of most countries, although they have huge resources - e.g. Argentina.

The people of Lat.Am. are as intelligent as everybody else I have met world wide, so the answer must somehow be cultural.

My own answer has gradually ripened through diverse reading of political and economial analysis and many discussions with friends in 7 Lat.Am. countries (Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, Brasil, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile) into five main causes (I admit that I may not understand some hiddden causes):

1. A complete lack of civismo - me, myself and I am not responsible for anyone else or for anything that happens. Why not do whatever pleases me, if everyone else does, why should I have the trouble to ...

3. Nobody in charge in government, province and to some extent also municipality level make long time plans.

4. No long time planning because of the metronome election (click-clack-click-clack), as a protest, of representatives from the opposite party - any opposite party (which simply continue where the previous government left) so no government can sail a straight course for any extended period of time; election and mid-term every two years - thus ensuring that chaos will prevail.

5. In SA there are few, or no, real - i.e. efficient - grass root movements. Everybody is willing to scream, shout, carry banners, throw bottles and stones, burn tires, block the roads, ..., their agression relieving them of frustrations. The politicians' answer is a flood of words but no proper action except for Potemkin facades - why bother, in a week or so the mob has forgotten all about it, business as usual.

In the EU and US grass root movements often have real power - stop doing this-or-that or else ... e.g. the sale of (Español) 'leche maternizada' (mother milk substitute ?) in Africa. Stop those practices or your company will starve to death like the African children do. Result: At first resistance, then - when sales dropped some 25 to 30% in US and EU - followed by total submission and a complete stop of the deplorable practices.

A similar type of action is used against politicians, you won't get reelected so you can no longer grab.

I honestly sometimes wonder if it is a cultural issue: most Latin American have similar traits, just like most African countries, Middle Eastern, European, etc.

If only we kept the good and tried to get rid of the bad. For example I consider the fact that people show their feelings, are very sociable, etc a pro, but when that degenerates into getting your whole family and group of friends a job within the government, then it is not so good. The lack of abilities to plan for the long term might be cause by impulsiveness, yes, we love those sudden bursts of love, happiness, etc, but when that leads you to undo anything a previous government did and start again from scratch, then it is not so good, etc.

Some countries capitalized on their culture, I do not think we do it as effectively.

 

[John.St]

I honestly sometimes wonder if it is a cultural issue: most Latin American have similar traits, just like most African countries, Middle Eastern, European, etc.

I am sure it is a cultural issue.

Some 80 to 100 years ago, we had many of the same problems in Scandinavia (not corruption which was wiped out in the late 1700's by the kings *).

Then it gradually grew upon everybody, blue collar, white collar and capitalist, that instead of "I eat my cake", if we co-operate we can produce a huge cake, and even the person with a big "my cake" receives a much larger slice of the huge one than what he used to have.

Thus the middle class in Scandinavia is about 90% of the population and includes - to the astonishment of e.g. the guy from 60 minutes - e.g. most garbage collectors: Apartment or house in a middle class district (what we call the 3 Vs: Villa, Volvo, Vovse = doggie), useful member of society, a friend of the professional or CEO next door.

Civismo! A win-win.

I feel sure it can be done in Latin America as well, but it takes a change of mindset.


*) A Dr. Phil. (Ph.D. +++) study has shown that when the kings absolutismos (absolute power ?) realized that they lost provenue because of corruption and instituted lifetime jail sentences (the real thing: until the end of your natural life, and no mercy) it came to a complete stop within 10-12 years - in Danmark when the civil servants observed an absolute top notch civ.serv. (and - now former - personal friend of the king) still in jail, "and there you stay".