There is something I don't get...

[ReemsterCARP]

suffer the apparent misery of the Subte and Collectivos (I have never been on either).

How come? During rush hours (and you may interpret that as extended rush hours) traveling by subte or colectivo can be a hassle, but outside those hours you travel comfortably and pretty fast.

 

[Ries]

As a student of Buenos Aires (not a student IN Buenos Aires) I cannot imagine not riding the collectivos.
Its fun, educational, cheap, safe, and interesting.
I ride collectivos just to see new neighborhoods.

And the subte- aside from rush hour, when it gets crowded, its often much faster than taxis, a fraction of the price, and also safe, clean, and offers good people watching.

I usually only take a taxi for the last trip of the night- home from where ever I have been.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

Aleli, one of the things that many people don't undestand about some foreigners, often from "developed" nations, and maybe estadounidenses are the biggest group of this particular type, is that we complain.

We don't just complain about Argentina, we complain about stuff in our own country as well.

Thanks for making this great point. Americans come from a culture that is built on the idea that we can make a difference. In Argentina, like in many European cultures, there is an almost soviet-esque acceptance of things as they are.

Most of the locals I know, when I discuss things about the country that are problematic, are as aware of it as we are, they just don't say anything.

I would also add that there is a lot of hype about this country that draws people here and leaves them shocked at the realities. Steve is right, he is happy because he is accepting of what he finds. That is the Buddhist definition of happiness. It should be said, that people come to a sight like this seeking information, conversation and opinions. Having an opinion different from yours/his/hers/theirs does not make me a "black sheep". It just means we think differently about a certain subject. If you don't like the conversations you read here, don't log on. But if you want to learn about Americans, how to do business with them for example, it is a great place to begin to see our cultural perspective. Finally, there a few restaurants in the city that are beginning to serve really good food (by American standards) and I note that these restaurants are also full of locals who join us in finding the standard fare from boring to bad. Sure, I get that some Argentines like the food the way it is, but that doesn't mean that an expat, who may be living here for a multitude of reasons, shouldn't long for some more variety or quality.
Peace....

 

[marksoc]

In Argentina, like in many European cultures, there is an almost soviet-esque acceptance of things as they are. .

Coming from a country that doesn't have even universal health insurance (a basic staple of an advanced nation) that is a very bold statement. I think that you are wrong. It is very difficult to change things everywhere, capitalist society is based on social classes, and the upper one tends to maintain things as they are. But, and is a big but, the social contract can have nuances, and in some countries (Finland, Sweden, etc) those nuances make it a better place to live than the US. In Argentina, thanks to the Peronist and the Inudstrialist years (1943-1969 or something like it, maybe until 1976) we have our share of acuqired rights that later on we lost.

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

Coming from a country that doesn't have even universal health insurance (a basic staple of an advanced nation) that is a very bold statement. I think that you are wrong. It is very difficult to change things everywhere, capitalist society is based on social classes, and the upper one tends to maintain things as they are. But, and is a big but, the social contract can have nuances, and in some countries (Finland, Sweden, etc) those nuances make it a better place to live than the US. In Argentina, thanks to the Peronist and the Inudstrialist years (1943-1969 or something like it, maybe until 1976) we have our share of acuqired rights that later on we lost.

Hey Marc, you can think I'm wrong if you like....~

Peace Brother

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

I am intrigued by this question...which people are you referring to? Don't you think that most of those who post here are either foreigners living in BA or have visited at least once....and have passports? Who is it that you think might not have visited a first world country?

I think he's referring to locals, having copied what the original poster said....

 

[MikeMike]

Coming from a country that doesn't have even universal health insurance (a basic staple of an advanced nation) that is a very bold statement.

Many Americans don't consider universal health care to be a basic staple. In fact, many Americans eschew large government programs because they believe that they will operate inefficiently, will render poor service and will restrict individual liberty (run over budget, poor service, increased taxes, gov't competition, centralization of power, etc).

 

[gouchobob]

Many Americans don't consider universal health care to be a basic staple. In fact, many Americans eschew large government programs because they believe that they will operate inefficiently, will render poor service and will restrict individual liberty (run over budget, poor service, increased taxes, gov't competition, centralization of power, etc).

Hey, make it run way over budget, very poor service, etc. and add in corruption you have a perfect description of Argentina.

 

[marksoc]

Hey, make it run way over budget, very poor service, etc. and add in corruption you have a perfect description of Argentina.

But still exists, and makes the lives of the poor so much less terrible. By the way, is not corruption but the continuous underfunding of public healthcare, it is not certainly over-budget. It is a systematic plan to ruin it (as with the public schools). Why? Because certain politicians prefer the private options. There are a lot of things wrong with Argentina, but the existance of state-based health-care is not one of them.

 

[Ashley]

I think the issue here is learning to take criticism and, better still, learning to be self-critical.
One thing I've noticed about Argentina in the years I've been living here is how little self-deprication goes on. We Brits, and a lot of other nationalities I've met here, spend 80% of our time criticising ourselves, our countries, our cultures...even our humour is largely based on it. That doesn't mean that all problems in the UK get resolved (they don't) but I do feel we put up with a lot less crap.
Often, when I've been asked by an Argentine why I stay here, I reply with problems I had with London, about the British lifestyle and how, for me, the positive aspects of living in Buenos Aires outweigh the postive aspects of living in the UK. 90% of the time, the response I get is along the lines of "yes, we are bloody great, aren't we!" Well no, but...
I accept 100% that it is my decision to move here, to stay here with my Argentine partner, to earn in pesos, to battle visa-related issues and whatever else comes my way. As difficult as those things are, for me it is worth it.
But I'm not going to pretend that I'm ok with mega-inflation, with shoddy services, with dog crap on the streets, paying first world prices for some third-world products...I shouldn't have to put up with that and nor, for that matter, should any Argentine. Where I come from, if I don't like the service at a cafe, I go to another with better service. If I get treated badly at a store or am ripped off, I complain...and stop shopping there...and most people I know are the same way. And as a result, businesses know that to keep customers, they're going to have to treat them well. There is nothing wrong with criticising and nothing wrong with being self-critical. If we shut up and put up...nothing's ever going to change (and I'm talking real issues that impact on everyone living in Argentina and not "expat issues" like spicy food!
And, like many have said in other comments, this is an EXPAT forum...a place to get advice from people in the same boat and, sometimes, a place to let off steam. It's not a place for Argentines to come in, take offence and tell us to all go home.