There is something I don't get...

[asadofed]

I am a porteño, lived in the Usa 2001-2009, just moved back to Buenos Aires.
I Love my city as it is, with it's dog shit and everything else.
It is much better if you realize it's what it is, and you accept it that way.
You'll learn to love it.

Now, everyone has the right to complain about things they don't like here.
I don't take offense for that.
I used to complain in the USa, too.
The problem starts when the complaints crash against the wall of "IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GEEEETT OUT!!!"
As many Americans would know as the Texan attitude, you either agree with me or by definition you are against me, so you can go away to your terrorist country of Argentina that is surely close to Afganistan and Irak.

Maybe the key is to enjoy the things you like in Buenos Aires.
And those you don't like, learn to accept them as they are.

After all, if you don't feel well in Buenos Aires, you can go back home not because someone disrespectfully sends you there, but because you chose to do so.

 

[tangobob]

Having read through this thread, there are so many issues here.
Firstly Aleli, this complaining about foriegn lands is not unusual, you should hear the brits complain in Spain, some people are just not happy out of their cmfort zone.
Now as for porteños not having thick skins, you have got to be kidding, after a taxi driver tried to rip me off I called him all the theiving B****s under the sun, yet when I left his taxi he thanked me and gave me his card in case I needed to phone for a cab.
Now someone said that Americans come from a country where they believe they can make a difference. If you want to make a difference, complain on the spot not to a group of expats who are in no possition to change anything.
My memory will only hold so many points, so for the last one, universal health care. Do not believe anything you read about the UK health care system. I have had many occasions to use them and without any complaint they are always there when needed no matter what your position in life, furthermore the more serious your condition the greater the service. That is not to say it is perfect, but any country would do well to addopt our system.
Now I am sure I have missed some point, in the words of Arnie "I'll be back"

 

[marksoc]

And, like many have said in other comments, this is an EXPAT forum...a place to get advice from people in the same boat and, sometimes, a place to let off steam. It's not a place for Argentines to come in, take offence and tell us to all go home.

But it is good to have our feedback. We can answer a lot of questions, and being local/kind-of-ex-pat myself, I see the two sides of the coin.

 

[ULDB65]

I will add this, though: San Francisco's pretty bad, too. Try to suggest to someone from San Francisco that it isn't the greatest place on Earth, I dare you.

Having lived more than a decade in the City by the Bay, I will most readily agree that it is not the greatest place on earth. But like every place I have been, it has wonderful stuff and horrible stuff and lots of normal stuff in between.

It's like saying to your kid: "You're the greatest kid on earth, because you are unique.... just like everyone else."

 

[ElQueso]

But still exists, and makes the lives of the poor so much less terrible. By the way, is not corruption but the continuous underfunding of public healthcare, it is not certainly over-budget. It is a systematic plan to ruin it (as with the public schools). Why? Because certain politicians prefer the private options. There are a lot of things wrong with Argentina, but the existance of state-based health-care is not one of them.

Have you ever, as a poor person with no other option and a sick kid, gone to a free public health hospital? The level of care that most poor receive in the States are at least equal to that. I'm not saying anything bad, but you have to understand that public free or near-free options DO exist in the States, but it takes some work to know where to go and what to do.

I've been to the point in the States where I was broke with kids and needed to take the kids to free clinics when they were sick. We waited hours but the kids got what they needed. Hospitals are not allowed to turn away poor in emergency situations. It happens, sure, but rich people die by stupid things in hospitals as well. It's no different (or at least not much) for the poor here in the state-run hospitals than it is for those in the States.

How many people here can afford private healthcare? Per capita. I don't know the numbers, but from discussions I've had with people where I live that they depend on the basic hospital services provided by the taxes they pay. Not the rich people that live in the neighborhood, but the couple that runs the kiosko down the road as an example of a source of information. This is out in the suburbs of Pilar, closer in toward town from there by about 10 klicks.

I do like the way here that people can choose to use the portion of the taxes they pay for the public system toward private healthcare. I also understand that businesses who are paying that extra portion can often make a deal with the healthcare companies for better rates. I don't remember details on that, but was researching setting up a company a couple of years ago and remember something about this. That is exactly the kind of reform item I'd support in the US, by the way!

But really, I've seen the facilities the poor have here for the most part, and heard the same horror stories that you hear about poor people in the States. My point in this is that in the US even without government-sponsored healthcare we manage to provide for the poor about as well as the state-run system does in Argentina. Maybe not quite as good, I'd concede, but the difference isn't much.

I'm not saying anything bad in that. I think the healthcare system here is moderately good. I certainly like it much better than the States (over all) with no doubt. I didn't say it was better, but it is certainly more accessible over all to a reasonable level of care, and cheaper.

The trade off are things like small businesses like dentistry where you can get good care but because the doctor doesn't have the training and backup personnel to administer anesthesia, you probably won't be put to sleep to have a root canal. Or to have 11 titanium posts drilled and set into your jaw bone over two operations. Work that turns out very good but doesn't have the pampering. Not that the pampering is a bad thing if you can afford it - or really need it.

 

[asadofed]

I lived in the US for 8 years (2001-2009).
The problem with health care over there is not the poor.
If you are really poor down there, you qualify for medicaid, so you get medical treatment paid by the government.
If you are older than 65 you get medicare that would also cover 100% of medical expenses as long as you are with an HMO.
And, If you have money you can pay for your medical insurance.

THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE REST!

middle class people who work decently and have a family income of 35K lets say, they can not afford to pay for medical insurance, and if they get sick they go to an ER and get medical treatment after long hours of waiting (that is what they did to me in 2 different hospitals in miami).....
They make you wait for ever, so you go away.
And if you stay the long hours, they would kind of take care of you, and you will get a nice bill on the mail.
If you don't have medical insurance you can sit and wait forever, because they see you as a cost instead of business.


You end up being afraid of going to the hospital for fear of ruining your credit for the next decade with a hospital bill you can not pay.

What i got as an experience in the US is....you either be a lazy ass who lives on government money or you better make it big time.
But if you are middle class, you better be healthy cause getting sick might cost: your house, and all your belongings and maybe even your life.

Dentistry, don't even talk about it.
Just a root canal in the us cost about 1k.
I had to go to a university called NOVA in broward county, and i was treated by students who messed up my mouth so much i decided to take my problematic teeth out....and wait to do an implant in Buenos Aires.

The Healthcare in the US is at least, less than moral.
Specially when you go around the world preachin' human rights bullcrap, and you let your own citizens die by the millions.

Don't get this message wrongly, I am a Us citizen, i really like the US.
But the Healthcare organization is a disgrace.


Salud!

 

[rob_en_baires]

Aleli, Im 90% in your side...
but you know something, they never NEVER talk about the dark side of their country...
Like they have to pray all days to never have a surgery in a hospital,or pay for a university to their sons for example....
they read the news and walk around paranoic...
But , yes ! insecurity, Poo..

 

[victoria]

"Just a root canal in the us cost about 1k."

My last root canal was $2,000. Dentists clean up in the U.S.

And I don't agree with Rob in Baires about Americans never talking about the dark side of their country. He hasn't talked to enough Americans.

 

[esllou]

"Just a root canal in the us cost about 1k."

My last root canal was $2,000. Dentists clean up in the U.S.

And I don't agree with Rob in Baires about Americans never talking about the dark side of their country. He hasn't talked to enough Americans.

aye, just have a look around on this forum.

 

[brocolliandtea]

Why dont the expats just leave??

Why dont you guys fix those buses! Come on dont you have any shame? Ive never seen pollution like this. And learn how to use a garbage can. Ive been to India and I swear the people are dirtier here, everywhere, all day long, constantly dirty.

And I dont think its correct to call ARg. developing. This is the best they can be, will ever be. this is it. Until Argentinianism dies out, this is it. A failed state of people who blame others and throw garbage and walk through black clouds of pollution in the street. Theyre good looking though, once a black cloud passes from a truck or uninspected public bus, the guys are nice to look at.