Are The Italians To Blame For Argentina's Demise

[jago25_98]

Everytime someone uses a peso instead of trying hard for an alternative that person causes the dimise if the country since inflation has such an influence it's simpler to just forget everything else until it's delt with. Italy has a long history since debased gold and silver had the same effect on the roman empire. not sure if argentinas debasers are of italian desent

 

[Lamb]

Guys, please, I am Italian and I swear that the Argentine "crisis" is not due to any type of cultural heritage.
The only heritage they have is the love for food, women and their good temper.
The on-going situation is just the result of their overall management.

Cheers

And theres no culture in management?

@Lamb

1. identifying "Italians" as a seperate hate group is racism. There is case law on this. The same as "Irish" or "British" etc etc for the purposes of racial equality and discrimination legislation. There are numerous other examples and its simply splitting hairs to pretend otherwise.

2. your words ..."Argentina is the country with most Italians after Italy, far more than Brazil" - but as far as I can find you are simply wrong

Italian Brazilians are the largest number of people with full or partial Italian ancestry outside of Italy. According to Wikipedia at least.

3. You equivocate .. "im not saying italian heritage is the only cause of problems in Argentina" but that is exactly what the thread starts with saying and what a previous poster also said and you appear to be rushing to defend this and associate yourself with racist sentiments.

No one would deny that ethnicity in relevant in explaining culture - but I say it is a minor distraction in explaining economic and social development and the province of bigots

Then wikipedia says different things in different pages. Either way, in Brazil italians doesnt make up half of the population, not even close, and so dont have the influence there they had/have in Argentina. Im not rushing to defend racist statements, as i dont find them racist. Exaggerated and generalizing, yes. Which is why i was clarifying that i, unlike the starter of this thread, dont think its the only reason of problems in Argentina.

 

[elalamopalermo]

Argentina is run like southern Italy before the EU came in and cleaned things up somewhat (although southern Italy is still a disaster in comparison to northern Italy and the rest of northern Europe). The difference is that in Argentina there is not a separate government and private mafia; in Argentina the government IS the mafia. It is difficult to comprehend the depth of this "rottenness" without being wholeheartedly involved and bound to the system here on a daily basis.

 

[Joe]

What is discouraging, when trying to find solutions to problems, is when self appointed Thought Police tell us topics are off limits because of their own self righteous definition of political correctness.

To posit that cultural factors have no effect on the political and economic structure of a country is naive at best and most likely is just disingenuous.

I've been called a "racist" and a "troll". If these attackers put as much effort into mounting a legitimate argument instead of name calling I might have some respect for them.

As far as the "racist" criticism, Italians are white. The racial criticism is just a crock. This is a question of cultures. If we don't have the right to criticize Italian culture, then do we also not have the right to criticize American culture, or even German culture of the 1930's? It is a common tactic of the Thought Police to call someone a racist in order to suppress an opinion they are opposed to when they don't have any legitimate opinions to offer.

In a post I made last week I defended Argentina in the face of Anglo prejudice. NatGeo in their "Seconds Before Disaster" called the sinking of a UK ship a "tragedy" but treated the Argentine lost of life matter-of-factly. Even the title of the show displays Anglo bias, i.e. the sinking of the HMS Coventry was not a "disaster" from the Argentine perspective. There was no outrage at this because to the Commissar of Political Correctness it is quite right to criticize Anglo culture but "racist" to criticize others

I don't play favorites like the Commissar. And if bringing up subjects that are important but "are not discussed in polite company" makes me a troll, then I'd rather be a troll than a hypocrite.

 

[Nounou]

Are Italian migrants to blame for Argentina's demise, probably not.

I fail to see why people who entered another country looking for a better life should be made scapegoats. Blame successive governments who have failed to take the tough decisions that are needed to foster growth in the economy and ensure that all people benefit from it, not just themselves and the 'few', and then take a good hard long look at yourself in the mirror as we are the numptys who place these people in power in the first place! I should add that Australia has its fair share of idiots in power too, regardless if the kick with the right foot or the left, and I will take my share of the blame for that. You are not alone Argentina!

Is the above rational enough for your goodself Joe?

 

[Joe]

Is the above rational enough for your goodself Joe?

In a word, No.

No one is trying to make anyone a scapegoat. These so-called scapegoats would in any case be long dead and in the grave. Also I am totally mystified on the several posts comparing Australia and Argentina. The former is one of the healthiest economies in the world today, a strong currency and relatively low deficit. The latter is an economic basket-case with a currency that is an joke.

Instead of resorting to the old truism that Argentina's problems are the result of successive bad governments, it is more useful to try and determine why that state of affairs came about.

Instead of throwing out words like "racist", "troll" and "scapegoat" maybe we could offer some theories not based on name calling, for example:

Some have suggested that Argentina's problems are because the people have a distaste for capitalism and "evil businessman" and rely on the government for solutions. I myself find favor with that argument, but if that were the prime case then the French who have the greatest distaste for capitalism would be in the same boat as Argentina.

So what else is there?

There is a Culture of Corruption in Argentina that may have originated in Southern Italy. I know many of you would consider this political incorrect. I suggest to you to stop reading and turn on Oprah.

The reason that this Culture of Corruption took hold in Argentina unlike the other countries that experienced immigration from Italy is that no other country took a majority of their immigration from Italy and particularly southern Italy. Is it just a coincidence that Southern Italy is historically one of the most corrupt places in Europe - if not the world.

If a country took a majority of their new inhabitants from a region with endemic corruption, e.g. China or Nigeria, would it be any surprise that that country ended up an economic basket case because of corruption.

Would Argentina have the same economic problems if a majority of the immigrants had come from Scandinavia?

 

[MikeMike]

Joe, I'm both Calabrian and Sicilian by descent. My (Italian) family was a fine, upstanding family since the day they hit the shores of NY right up until this day. I find your clearly discriminatory post to be offensive, and frankly I think you're a dick for having posted/said it.

Otherwise, you think Argentina is a basket case because of the Italians? Look around buddy. Most of Latin America is a mess. How do you explain that one?

 

[Joe]

Joe, I'm both Calabrian and Sicilian by descent. My (Italian) family was a fine, upstanding family since the day they hit the shores of NY right up until this day. I find your clearly discriminatory post to be offensive, and frankly I think you're a dick for having posted/said it.

Otherwise, you think Argentina is a basket case because of the Italians? Look around buddy. Most of Latin America is a mess. How do you explain that one?

An addition to the list: Troll, Racist, Scapegoater , and now "Dick". Such intellectual and cogent arguments. Sarc Off

Most of Latin America is not a mess. Chile, Peru, Colombia and Brazil - which comprise a majority of the continent by population are on the ascent.

Look I'm sorry if I offended Italians. I'm not attacking Italians as people. I'm just referring to the corruption endemic to southern Italy and it's influence in Argentina. Calling me a "dick" has in no way strengthened your argument. Maybe you should get your cugino, "Fat Tony" to do a little arm twisting - maybe that's your best bet.

People need to stop taking things personally. I'm in Vietnam now and the Yanqui backpacker is in no way responsible for the heinous actions taken by their government 40+ years ago - they weren't even born. Pretending it didn't happen is another story.

 

[cbonanni]

Joe,

I called you a troll in the sense that your post was looking to offend Italians. When fishing , and pulling a lure behind a boat at slow speed "looking" for fish , it is called "trolling". I was not referring to you as some ugly Scandinavian creature found in the woods , who turns to stone in daylight.

I hope this clears up the fact I was not calling you a "name". Refer to it as more of a technique to incite a confrontational thread.

As an Italian , I will still not bite (another fishing reference).

Have a nice day.

 

[Lamb]

An addition to the list: Troll, Racist, Scapegoater , and now "Dick". Such intellectual and cogent arguments. Sarc Off

Most of Latin America is not a mess. Chile, Peru, Colombia and Brazil - which comprise a majority of the continent by population are on the ascent.

Look I'm sorry if I offended Italians. I'm not attacking Italians as people. I'm just referring to the corruption endemic to southern Italy and it's influence in Argentina. Calling me a "dick" has in no way strengthened your argument. Maybe you should get your cugino, "Fat Tony" to do a little arm twisting - maybe that's your best bet.

People need to stop taking things personally. I'm in Vietnam now and the Yanqui backpacker is in no way responsible for the heinous actions taken by their government 40+ years ago - they weren't even born. Pretending it didn't happen is another story.

I cant agree with you on this one. Most of the continent is very much a mess, although theres something to say for it going in the right direction. Brazil still has an enormous amount of poor people, the difference between the poorest and the richest is one of the biggest in the world, there is corruption everywhere. The same goes for almost all Latin American countries. That its starting to change, and that there are improvements, had to be said, but to name them as good examples,, is taking it a bit too far. The entire region has had its problems with corruption and power since the colonization. What was installed here was a medieval Spanish feudalism, plus racism (in this case yes), towards the natives. The few wealthy owners kept themselves rich and the rest poor, and this is a cause of many issues until this day. So to blame it all on the Italians to me seems ignorant. I do agree with you though that in here theyve had a major influence, and with the mere size of the group could have changed a lot about the old culture, but instead maybe just added a culture of corruption and looking away into the mix.