BAExpat Member Featured In the La Nación

[Silvie]

Do these women come to the national or city hospitals where they get medical care for free? Somebody is bringing them.

 

[aloevera]

This is a very complex and multifaceted case. At present there are at least 10 women "rechasadas" at the border and waiting to be deported or allowed to enter after a judicial review.

Lus soli (derecho de suelo) is meant to make citizenship and nationality law simpler and more equitable and is the norm in most of the Western Hemisphere (Americas). But you have a bunch of mostly wealthy Russians traveling on expensive tickets (think $3k a pop), to give birth, stay a month and then leave. As much as 80% of these Russian women give birth and go back home. The child is a native born Argentine, they get a lawyer who then lodges a court case requesting Argentine citizenship for the child’s parents — even though they are back in Russia or wherever — and will never be back here. Yes some do stay and request permanente residence, but most do not. The problem are not those that stay — they are welcome — it’s those that abuse the system. If they are refugees they need to apply and enter the country as such — again they are welcome — but reality is that most are just spoiled wealthy individuals with online jobs that want a extra passport and the added benefit for them and their children.

Frankly, I don't see any problem with this at all. You mentioned them possibly being wealthy twice -- are you jealous? There is no point in hating on success. Moving on, every individual has to do what's best for themselves and their family and their respective futures. That means leaving Putin's Russia in many cases, using whatever options are available. I applaud all who have done what's necessary to secure their future. Good for them.

 

[dsp27]

This is a huge red flag. If this trend continues where "wealthy" Russians see Argentina as a quick, cheap, and easy "Golden Passport" without any background vetting thanks to legal loopholes, and even if only a handful of them have ulterior motives (sanction dodging, espionage, etc.) and given the acute current global sensitivites, then it won't be long before European and other western countries start slapping visa requirements on Argentine passport holders. The government has a good reason to start cracking down on this.

Exactly, this is what the chief of migraciones said. She said that literally they have had lot's of enquires from western embassies on what's going on. That's why they are cracking on it now.

 

[dsp27]

Frankly, I don't see any problem with this at all. You mentioned them possibly being wealthy twice -- are you jealous? There is no point in hating on success. Moving on, every individual has to do what's best for themselves and their family and their respective futures. That means leaving Putin's Russia in many cases, using whatever options are available. I applaud all who have done what's necessary to secure their future. Good for them.

I am wealthy myself, not jealous at all, just smart enough and not full of myself to realize (unlike some people on this forum wink wink) that wealth does NOT = success nor aptitude nor nada. Most wealth is passed down the generations, either directly (cash) or indirectly (opportunities, education, connections). Then there is luck and chance and of course ability and hard work BUT a lot less than what you'd think. This is something I have always found fascinating about Americans, how they have been sold on the "American dream" and the notion of rags to riches. It rarely works that way. Hard work rarely creates wealth, money creates wealth.

Just to sum up, these are individuals who are already well off, have food, shelter, means to travel etc. They come here with no intention to stay and live, work or add value to Argentina. They have no place here. If they are refugees they should apply as such. But most will be back in Russia within 2 months, closing their eyes and pretending they are apolitical and what's going on in Ukraine is none of their business nor fault. I beg to differ.

 

[antipodean]

Just to sum up, these are individuals who are already well off, have food, shelter, means to travel etc. They come here with no intention to stay and live, work or add value to Argentina. They have no place here. If they are refugees they should apply as such. But most will be back in Russia within 2 months, closing their eyes and pretending they are apolitical and what's going on in Ukraine is none of their business nor fault. I beg to differ.

This is regrettable but very true in many, but not all, cases and is apparent by the numbers already reported here in Argentina. Many come, get their passport and go back to Russia. With that passport they can go back to vacationing on the Costa Brava or Rhodes, something that now days in Russia is the ultimate status symbol since it’s practically impossible and a huge pain in the a$$ to get a new EU tourist visa now days and no one with the means to avoid it wants to be seen vacationing in the now “common” places such as Bodrum or Hurghada.

As anywhere in the world for the past decades Russians (and Chinese) top the list of golden visa and passport applicants in countries that offer them, but not so much for being permanent migrants to those countries… to imply that all these people who sought these out must have a problem with the regime in their home countries is ludicrous, especially when being supportive or at the very least ambivalent to the regime is the most common way of being successful, accumulating and maintaining wealth in such countries and the fact that ultimately they go running back there despite having the option and means not to.

 

[nikad]

People taking advantage of legal and financial gray zones or loopholes. Just let them be.

 

[aloevera]

DNM can't deport someone for as long as there is an ongoing judicial case, and if they do, like he mentioned in the article, those officials can be criminally denounced.

The detained Russians have now been let into the country. I am waiting to see what will happen to the DNM officials now that they've all been let in - court proceedings likely? I guess we will see. This decision certainly sets a new precedent.

 

[Supercharged]

It is alarming that immigration did not flag the issue way back, it might be that the government needs to be more educated about what goes on in the world. The issue of Russian and Ukrainian immigrants has been a problem way before the war, just see the dealings of these communities in Western Europe. As per my field, I have to be up to date and I have lived abroad for part of the year for the past 10 years in places where Russians and Ukrainians go in masses such as Egypt, Maldives, Indonesia, Cyprus, India and you name it. These people go to get a passport where they can or a never-ending tourist visa, work under the table catering to their own community with the unfortunate fact that the racism they portray against their host communities is alarming. Argentina must educate itself, and place restrictions like any other nation on immigration. Furthermore, the country should stop being a landing ground for folks who can't go anywhere in the world until the country takes care of the enormous problems inside the country. Let's \not romanticize an issue that is truly a big problem around the world and will jeopardize the ability of Argentines entering countries in the future.

 

[Vagrant Violet]

It's a delicate situation to say the least. On one hand, it's understandable why so many Russians are fleeing and choosing Argentina to settle down and/or give birth. But while it's definitely not a crime to be pregnant (as stated in the protest sign in the photo below from La Nación), with too many people taking advantage of the legal loopholes and choosing not to enter on refugee status, it's going to inevitably cause major ramifications X10 down the road when the situation becomes even more severe (for both Argentine and Russian citizens alike).

While I absolutely recognize the humanitarian need, this issue needs to be handled accordingly and with certain protocols in place in terms of immigration status. Otherwise, it's "pay now or pay later."

Does Bajo_cero post here much anymore? Back in the day several years ago he posted quite a bit of information and posts here. I haven't seen his posts in a while.

As for Dr. Rubilar, good for him for taking a break from posting childish insults at all hours of the day to focus on his practice.
(Yes. I said what I said. As a mom of 2 special needs children, I don't take kindly to people who sling around the "R-word". Not a very professional look)

 

[lunar]

It is alarming that immigration did not flag the issue way back, it might be that the government needs to be more educated about what goes on in the world. The issue of Russian and Ukrainian immigrants has been a problem way before the war, just see the dealings of these communities in Western Europe. As per my field, I have to be up to date and I have lived abroad for part of the year for the past 10 years in places where Russians and Ukrainians go in masses such as Egypt, Maldives, Indonesia, Cyprus, India and you name it. These people go to get a passport where they can or a never-ending tourist visa, work under the table catering to their own community with the unfortunate fact that the racism they portray against their host communities is alarming. Argentina must educate itself, and place restrictions like any other nation on immigration. Furthermore, the country should stop being a landing ground for folks who can't go anywhere in the world until the country takes care of the enormous problems inside the country. Let's \not romanticize an issue that is truly a big problem around the world and will jeopardize the ability of Argentines entering countries in the future.

I understand that it is now socially acceptable to bash Russians. If you ever dared to say the same things about Bolivians, Italians, Turks or people of any other nation, you would be labelled as a xenophobe for life.

Yes, there is presently a problem with birth tourism from Russia. Most probably, the immigration laws soon will be changed to address it. Likely towards imposing restrictions of how long you need to stay in the country to keep the residency.

Meanwhile, the influx of people from Russia is boosting the Armenian economy, for example. So, "these people" are not necessarily bringing only bad things.

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/sovereigns/fitch-revises-armenia-outlook-to-positive-affirms-at-b-10-02-2023

Large Immigration Drives Improvements: An influx of immigrants (estimated by the authorities at about 65,000) from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, representing a 2.2% annual increase in the population, has boosted external as well as macroeconomic and fiscal performance. A very large influx of immigrants and capital from Russia in 2022 has boosted external as well as macroeconomic and fiscal performance.