Buenos Aires Needs A Red Light Zone

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Eradication of murder is not possible. You will always have murders and rapes in any country in the world every single year. That does not mean we should decriminalize it. You call prostitution as a vice as if it were some bad habit. For the most part, prostitutes are not doing the job they are because they enjoy it. They were either trapped in it, or they felt like they had no other choice. No woman says to herself, "I want to grow up to be a prostitute." Once you are sucked into this profession, it is very very difficult to get out, because most women are taken advantage of by pimps or they have no way of working in something legitimate. For the most part, women are victims in this game in most parts of the world, sometimes from a very young age. You can't control this, especially in a country like Argentina where people ignore laws and do what they want. This issue is not like the issue of marijuana. It is a problem that cannot by solved by "regulation," but instead by raiding brothels and arresting the human traffickers. Kind of hard when a quarter of the police run the brothels.

Dont put words in my mouth, thank you. I object quite strongly to your portayal of me as someone who sees prostitution as a mere bad habit. This is what people do when they dont want to talk facts, they start trying to smear the person they are talking to. I strongly dislike that type of argument and you know where you can stick it.

Talking factually, prohibition is not working anywhere. Sadly, due to human nature prone to addiction, desire and various needs prohibition is not possible. The most progressive result i can think of is to protect the workers, remove the pimps from the equation and move the business under the control of the state. It is not better that these men, women and whatever in between operate hidden by darkness, locked up in small rooms and controlled by criminals, there are not enough cops in south america to kick in every door to prevent this whilst also fighting a growing drug trade, whilst also fighting increasing petty crime, whilst also patrolling highways, whilst also doing the one million other jobs they need to do.

There are of course plenty of success stories with licensed trade, but you know how to use google if you want to see both sides of the argument. I do not see the benefit for the women in not protecting them from pimps by removing them from the equation and i do not see the benefit for the police in committing them to an endless unwinnable fight.

You draw paralells between prostitution and murder, thats a fairly puerile form of argument. One can be controlled and licensed, quite clearly murder cannot be controlled and license.

. I dont see the state as having a role in policing morality, i do see them having a role in improving the life of vulnerable and exposed women, men and whatever else. I would prefer that prostitution did not exist, nor heroin, paco and whatever other addicitve drugs (real addicitve ones that prey in the poor, not just the ones that wealthy people do for kicks) for that matter, but the reality is they do and we should have by now learnt that kicking in doors and other gung ho nonsense has not made a dent in the existence of these evils. Perhaps we should learn, contain and control.

 

[French jurist]

Where is Cafe Orleans?

San Martin & Cordoba (the telo is one street away B))

 

[jblawton]

The 130 bus goes from Belgrano to Palermo through the bosques de Palermo. I rode that bus every weekday for 3 years when my kids where 7 and 5 (girl and boy) on the way back to school around the time the transvestites start working... my kids fought for the window seat so they could take a closer look and have a laugh... what can I say, I did not love the idea, but you cannot avoid it or pretend they are not there. At one point they had a whole line of them identified, the old one with the boobs and penis, the newcomer who stands outside the gates, etc. To them, it is just a freak show which has gotten old. I have only hesitated when my daughter asked "but why do they stand here, how do they earn money?" and I just said that they sell drugs and that some men find them attractive and invite them to ride in their car... I tell you, it is much easier to explain this than to try to find answers as per why police let them sell drugs.

Just once a bus driver stopped the bus and advised my husband to take the kids to the left part of the bus because of the rated R view.

My first encounter with the Bosques de Palermo "cluster" of workers was jogging, and saying it was creepy is an understatement.

Someone had told me the Lago de Regatas made a good place for running, with a measured circuit, etc. So I head down there from Nuñez one evening that I felt like doing a longer run, I had maybe done 4 or 5 K by the time I got there, was gonna do a full circuit, then head back home. I enter the area and I see some other guy jogging maybe 100 feet ahead past the entrance, and no one in sight for the first 200 feet. Then I see (note: left my glasses home that night) some people standing up on the sidewalk far away. At this point I knew that at least bus 130 goes near the lake, so I assumed they were people waiting for the bus. When I pass the first one, I see a "lady" in clothes a couple of sizes too small for "her" (I paid little attention to the face). My first thought: bartender going to work, as the clothes were not quite vulgar or different than what the average 18-year-old wears to a club these days. Then I see a second one pretty much 50 meters ahead (I was running at a good pace, distance might have been less, but it took me about 15 seconds to reach the next one, so that seems a fair distance hunch), but didn't pay attention to clothes as I was running on the grass along the road and was watching my step. Then at about the same distance I see another single shadow, and I see the guy that was running ahead not there anymore. At that point, my brain first says "weird, that guy was fast", but it doesn't kick in until I get to about maybe the 5th shadow, when I slowed my step a slight bit and noticed --through the lights of cars passing through-- that the ladies were spaced almost at the exact same distance from one another, and at that point I look (discretely) at the two nearest me and see the same type of black/tight/raunchy clothes, and I look back and see the same pattern of evenly distributed workers. My alarm finally went off (I blame all the blood being outside of my brain, pumping oxygen to my legs), and I either would have had to return those 250-300 meters to the entrance or cut through a clear in the woods to Alcorta. Against every possible horror movie cliché, I cut through the woods (maybe 40-50 meters only to Alcorta, did it at Usain Bolt-ish speed), and right when I come out some guy looks at me and says "Oh, you ok? Looks you got a bit of a surprise in there."

Then he explained to me about that part of the BA "nightlife" and advised me not to jog in there any later than half-an-hour before sunset, when they start "shipping them in", etc.

I've had to take the 130 a few times in the last couple of months and by now I'm less shocked about it. As a sidenote, in Spain they were having a lot of trouble --especially in Barcelona-- because prostitution, especially (but not exclusively) from African immigrants, was getting out of control, with public exposure evolving into public sex. This newspaper report and picture (may be a bit graphic for sensitive readers) made the front page of most major newspapers, and was the turning point for authorities doing something about it, especially since it was half a block from world-famous Boqueria market. When I ran out of the Bosques between the trees, that's what came to mind, that I would come across or close to someone who decided to save money on a telo and put green spaces to "good use". Thankfully it hasn't gotten that far, at least not in Palermo.

 

[Joe]

There is the issue of prostitution and there is the issue of kidnapping.

Certainly kidnapping is against the law and the laws on kidnapping - holding someone against their will - should be enforced. Pimping is currently illegal but the laws are not enforced.

Many times in this forum, North Americans, come down here and want to bring their Puritan sense of values. Since the idea of outlawing prostitution is met unenthusiasticly, they attempt to obfuscate the issue by saying these people are held against their will and therefore prostitution should be outlawed. What their real motivation is, is to bring their puritan set of values here - which is hopeless. Just as it would be hopeless to get other countries to impeach a president for getting a Lewinsky. American is unique in it puritan heritage - it will remain so.

 

[French jurist]

American is unique in it puritan heritage - it will remain so.

Americans are indeed puritans, but they are the biggest porn movie producers on Earth, lol (we all have our contradictions, he he)

 

[Joe]

Americans are indeed puritans, but they are the biggest porn movie producers on Earth, lol (we all have our contradictions, he he)

Frenchie, How do you know that?

 

[Rich One]

San Martin & Cordoba (the telo is one street away B))

And EXEDRA Cordoba and Pellegrini

 

[Rich One]

My first encounter with the Bosques de Palermo "cluster" of workers was jogging, and saying it was creepy is an understatement.

Someone had told me the Lago de Regatas made a good place for running, with a measured circuit, etc. So I head down there from Nuñez one evening that I felt like doing a longer run, I had maybe done 4 or 5 K by the time I got there, was gonna do a full circuit, then head back home. I enter the area and I see some other guy jogging maybe 100 feet ahead past the entrance, and no one in sight for the first 200 feet. Then I see (note: left my glasses home that night) some people standing up on the sidewalk far away. At this point I knew that at least bus 130 goes near the lake, so I assumed they were people waiting for the bus. When I pass the first one, I see a "lady" in clothes a couple of sizes too small for "her" (I paid little attention to the face). My first thought: bartender going to work, as the clothes were not quite vulgar or different than what the average 18-year-old wears to a club these days. Then I see a second one pretty much 50 meters ahead (I was running at a good pace, distance might have been less, but it took me about 15 seconds to reach the next one, so that seems a fair distance hunch), but didn't pay attention to clothes as I was running on the grass along the road and was watching my step. Then at about the same distance I see another single shadow, and I see the guy that was running ahead not there anymore. At that point, my brain first says "weird, that guy was fast", but it doesn't kick in until I get to about maybe the 5th shadow, when I slowed my step a slight bit and noticed --through the lights of cars passing through-- that the ladies were spaced almost at the exact same distance from one another, and at that point I look (discretely) at the two nearest me and see the same type of black/tight/raunchy clothes, and I look back and see the same pattern of evenly distributed workers. My alarm finally went off (I blame all the blood being outside of my brain, pumping oxygen to my legs), and I either would have had to return those 250-300 meters to the entrance or cut through a clear in the woods to Alcorta. Against every possible horror movie cliché, I cut through the woods (maybe 40-50 meters only to Alcorta, did it at Usain Bolt-ish speed), and right when I come out some guy looks at me and says "Oh, you ok? Looks you got a bit of a surprise in there."

Then he explained to me about that part of the BA "nightlife" and advised me not to jog in there any later than half-an-hour before sunset, when they start "shipping them in", etc.

I've had to take the 130 a few times in the last couple of months and by now I'm less shocked about it. As a sidenote, in Spain they were having a lot of trouble --especially in Barcelona-- because prostitution, especially (but not exclusively) from African immigrants, was getting out of control, with public exposure evolving into public sex. This newspaper report and picture (may be a bit graphic for sensitive readers) made the front page of most major newspapers, and was the turning point for authorities doing something about it, especially since it was half a block from world-famous Boqueria market. When I ran out of the Bosques between the trees, that's what came to mind, that I would come across or close to someone who decided to save money on a telo and put green spaces to "good use". Thankfully it hasn't gotten that far, at least not in Palermo.

The fact that there is a procession of hundreds of cars, all night long, looking for travestis much in demand by married men? Is this a new trend? The Active Travestis declare they work far more than Pasive ones?. None of them wants to change sex , would be a disaster.

 

[French jurist]

Frenchie, How do you know that?

My right hand told me so

 

[Joe]

The fact that there is a procession of hundreds of cars, all night long, looking for travestis much in demand by married men? Is this a new trend? The Active Travestis declare they work far more than Pasive ones?. None of them wants to change sex , would be a disaster.

What about these guys coming out of the closet and getting a divorce? Or maybe their wives should learn how to use a strap-on? Or under Sharia Law these guys would get their pee-wee chopped off. What is the proper solution?