Correo - Where Can I Read The Laws-Is It A Crime (Sis)?

we really need to hire bajo cero and just grind it out. its about the principle. there is no black or white. if I am right, I want to show the world and make my point. enough already. un brazo khairy

For a while I thought we were good .. all seemed tranqui ! .. What happened ?

jbeas: Do you think Bajo would accept to present our case in the UN ?
How are we going to raise funds to be able to retain him ?
(he is the most generous on this Forum) !

Otro para vos jbeas !
 
Wow, a lot of complaining and what? Not all your stuff yet?

I am going to interject my opinion, following a 41+ year career first 30 years in the US Military and the last 10+ years as a US Customs and Border Protection Officer.

Remember the old adage about catching things with honey and not vinegar? Remember please and thank you? In my almost 11 years working on the border between Canada and the US I have heard most of it, see more then I care to remember, and have watched someone turn beet red in the face, stammer, stutter, almost get spit on their chin, all the while I am becoming nicer, the smile bigger, and calmer. It really torqued the guy when I did that. But there is a point. He was a USC who was breaking the law by trying to bring $6,000 worth of Lladro Crystal into the US for Christmas Presents. By legal rights we could have seized all the items and told him to have a good day. Since it was Christmas we "helped" him and only charged him the 1% duty.

What was the issue? He walked into our facility demanding that we didn't know our jobs, that we were a joke, and couldn't do anything to him because he was a USC. He came very close to being arrested for attempted assault on a federal agent and even closer to a 2 second blast of pepper spray in his face - except we kept our side of it calm and cool!

I guess bajo_cero said it best - if it were me and I had "things" in boxes being held by Customs and I wanted them I would have probably walked in, politely told someone why I was there, and asked someone what exactly do I need to do to take custody of my property. JBHenson you start out talking about scientific equipment and later, toy cars in boxes; as a retired Customs Officer I would have been a bit more detailed in what it is you're bringing into my country if you were at my border.

I am not really conversant with the Customs Laws of Argentina; but in the US and Colombia, when entering the country the words "Do you have anything to declare" means certain things have to be declared when they come into the country. I do know that a customs declaration needs to be completed and unaccompanied goods also need to be declared - and commercial goods are prohibited. (from a google search: "what items must be declared when entering Argentina). I suspect those "scientific equipment may be considered as possibly prohibited.

Bottom line - I try to be very low key everywhere I go. If I am asked a question in Spanish that I don't understand, thank god my wife is with me; I am still in kindergarten when it comes to speaking Spanish; but I am a very good judge of people - the safety of me and my fellow officers depended on that skill.

One quick anecdote from my step-son, who is Colombian but works for Aerolineas. Because of the situation he now has a camera mounted in his car. He was stopped by the police while driving one day, seeing he was Colombian they started in with "ah Colombian, you are smuggling drugs". As he says things were getting intense, he was worried they were going to plant something in his car. He remained calm (he really is very laid back and is wise beyond his years) and said, but I work for the government too...showed his work ID and received apology upon apology. Had he became aggressive in his response, after they handcuffed and beat him they probably would have "found" drugs!

Be polite, we are guests, especially us temporary visitors for a couple of months, we need to learn the cards in the deck and how to play them. It goes a long way when you ask someone for help or advice instead of demanding something.
 
You should be carefull about confronting a public officer. If she is a bi..ch, she can start a criminal case agaibst you for contraband or for attack to a public officer. Even the case is hilarious, you are going to be under criminal prosecution.

As it was mentioned, you are not a customer, instead you are an adult who has to show up with the proper form filled and the agent didn't lie, you just didn't want/know you have to go with the form.

As far as you are receibing mail from China, they are not stupid, they know that the affidavid that states the box is a present is an obvious lie. So, confronting them is suicidal.

In my experience, it works better to pretend to be humble and ask "how should i do it".
The bottom line that this situation with mail Argentina is pure North Korean 4th World Bullshit. Not worthy of any country that claims to be a democracy. The Argentine postal system is worse than the criminals that charge you money to park on a public street. Lazy, inept, stupid , corrupt extortionist.
 
On the other hand, ... (I speak for myself) if it were a matter of principle, and seriously very important to me, and feel that my rights were brutally violated and I was savagely lied to by a non public servant impersonating public servant status , .. I would definitely pursue it all the way to supreme court ! ..... I´ll not rest, ... leave no stone unturned !
I might even take refuge in the Canadian Embassy (and seek political asylum there) until the Canadian Prime Minister review the Argentine Criminal Code, especially Article 237.
I would not hesitate for a minute to demand the Canadian Parliament to convene for a special emergency session !

It does not matter, if it is the mad house of lunacy or the biggest circus in town, .. I´ll insist on THE LETTER OF THE LAW to the fullest extent!

You have to focus on your final objective - to get what you want. HOW is the tricky part. A change of attitude, a swallow of proudness, a bow of heads and some money can help you get that. This is not a game about who knows the laws better, it is a situation where you are a nobody and they are the law and have your goods. They make the law on the spot? Fine, what can you do about it? Do you really think that your Consul will get in trouble because you are not happy with Correo Argentino?

I am sorry, this is like Italy, you have to swallow it and play dirty. Do not throw at them the "I know the law better than you/Call your super" attitude like you (can) do in the States. It is counterproductive.
 
You have to focus on your final objective - to get what you want. HOW is the tricky part. A change of attitude, a swallow of proudness, a bow of heads and some money can help you get that. This is not a game about who knows the laws better, it is a situation where you are a nobody and they are the law and have your goods. They make the law on the spot? Fine, what can you do about it? Do you really think that your Consul will get in trouble because you are not happy with Correo Argentino?

I am sorry, this is like Italy, you have to swallow it and play dirty. Do not throw at them the "I know the law better than you/Call your super" attitude like you (can) do in the States. It is counterproductive.

Basically we are in agreement, but I have few observations :
  • The whole idea has nothing to do with losing your pride, or you´re nobody, or bow your head .... etc etc.
  • The idea is ... when I´m in 6 feet of water, I have to swim. I wouldn´t insist on walking.
  • The idea is that: .. the concept of customer service DOES NOT EXIST anywhere here, let alone post office. I struggled for a long long time until I got it out of my head. Forget it.
  • It is unthinkable to demand enforcing the law (regardless !!!). For example in traffic, I have to flow with the lunacy and sheer madness like everyone else. I would be risking my life if I stopped on a red light in a dangerous area at night to blindly obey the law. etc etc ..
  • I´m not here for customer service, or high standards of the rule of the law. You have to identify and pin point exactly what you want from Argentina. What is it that you are here for ? You have to know what are you trying to do ... and how you gona get there.
Bears repeating:
Trying to fit a square in a round hole is a futile exercise and pure frustration !
 
Wow, a lot of complaining and what? Not all your stuff yet?

I am going to interject my opinion, following a 41+ year career first 30 years in the US Military and the last 10+ years as a US Customs and Border Protection Officer.

Remember the old adage about catching things with honey and not vinegar? Remember please and thank you? In my almost 11 years working on the border between Canada and the US I have heard most of it, see more then I care to remember, and have watched someone turn beet red in the face, stammer, stutter, almost get spit on their chin, all the while I am becoming nicer, the smile bigger, and calmer. It really torqued the guy when I did that. But there is a point. He was a USC who was breaking the law by trying to bring $6,000 worth of Lladro Crystal into the US for Christmas Presents. By legal rights we could have seized all the items and told him to have a good day. Since it was Christmas we "helped" him and only charged him the 1% duty.

What was the issue? He walked into our facility demanding that we didn't know our jobs, that we were a joke, and couldn't do anything to him because he was a USC. He came very close to being arrested for attempted assault on a federal agent and even closer to a 2 second blast of pepper spray in his face - except we kept our side of it calm and cool!

I guess bajo_cero said it best - if it were me and I had "things" in boxes being held by Customs and I wanted them I would have probably walked in, politely told someone why I was there, and asked someone what exactly do I need to do to take custody of my property. JBHenson you start out talking about scientific equipment and later, toy cars in boxes; as a retired Customs Officer I would have been a bit more detailed in what it is you're bringing into my country if you were at my border.

I am not really conversant with the Customs Laws of Argentina; but in the US and Colombia, when entering the country the words "Do you have anything to declare" means certain things have to be declared when they come into the country. I do know that a customs declaration needs to be completed and unaccompanied goods also need to be declared - and commercial goods are prohibited. (from a google search: "what items must be declared when entering Argentina). I suspect those "scientific equipment may be considered as possibly prohibited.

Bottom line - I try to be very low key everywhere I go. If I am asked a question in Spanish that I don't understand, thank god my wife is with me; I am still in kindergarten when it comes to speaking Spanish; but I am a very good judge of people - the safety of me and my fellow officers depended on that skill.

One quick anecdote from my step-son, who is Colombian but works for Aerolineas. Because of the situation he now has a camera mounted in his car. He was stopped by the police while driving one day, seeing he was Colombian they started in with "ah Colombian, you are smuggling drugs". As he says things were getting intense, he was worried they were going to plant something in his car. He remained calm (he really is very laid back and is wise beyond his years) and said, but I work for the government too...showed his work ID and received apology upon apology. Had he became aggressive in his response, after they handcuffed and beat him they probably would have "found" drugs!

Be polite, we are guests, especially us temporary visitors for a couple of months, we need to learn the cards in the deck and how to play them. It goes a long way when you ask someone for help or advice instead of demanding something.

I was polite and said please and thank you for 2 weeks traveling back and forth wasting 2 hours every 2 days, then on week 3 I went to another guy who made the first guy look for my packages that he then FOUND. Open I might add,

they told me I could only get 2 packages a year and thats not what the law says, no where found another link today.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1657499-todo-lo-que-hay-que-saber-sobre-los-controles-de-la-afip-a-las-compras-en-internet

It appears from this link a traveler can get up to 300 dollar in packages monthly, then have to pay a 50 percent tax.
 
You have to focus on your final objective - to get what you want. HOW is the tricky part. A change of attitude, a swallow of proudness, a bow of heads and some money can help you get that. This is not a game about who knows the laws better, it is a situation where you are a nobody and they are the law and have your goods. They make the law on the spot? Fine, what can you do about it? Do you really think that your Consul will get in trouble because you are not happy with Correo Argentino?

I am sorry, this is like Italy, you have to swallow it and play dirty. Do not throw at them the "I know the law better than you/Call your super" attitude like you (can) do in the States. It is counterproductive.

I never once had an attitude, always nice, never lost my temper I did tell my wife it was rediculous in front of them that they changed their minds again. (RUBBER WALL) But I was always nice to them, the only time I asked to see credentials was when the women at AFIP said she worked for immigrations and wanted to check how long I had been in the country, and I asked nicely. She left and never returned.
 
jbhenson - I still get the feeling that you aren't telling all of the story about what items and why you are importing them into Argentina. You are reading different things on line; and I think you're confusing/mixing apples with oranges.

From what I know and read, personal property - camera, computer, etc, arriving in your luggage is exempt - except cell phones. Commercial goods, in your luggage are prohibited; like commercial goods arriving in the US entry must be made with customs. You mention sicentific equipment, boxes from China, small box with toy cars - in my former trained mind not of that really falls into the realm of household or personal goods. The transportation of currency, into or out of Argentina is a seperate issue and you can't really apply currency regulations with other types of goods.

If I were the customs (or mail) person you were dealing with, no matter how polite you were as soon as you began to question me, I too would be on the "offensive" - and could see how the situation turned against you.

What is the scientific equipment - is it for commercial purposes?
 
No, i say the you should keep the customer service attitude for complaing at whole foods because this is a federal crime in this country when there are public officers involved.
FYI read article 237 of the criminal code.

Yeah you just have to go with the flow over there in the darkness of Argentina. Hell they are so corrupt they even stole a case of wine my wife was bringing back the last time. You have to realize that Argies are fun to party with but so is the devil too.
 
jbhenson - I still get the feeling that you aren't telling all of the story about what items and why you are importing them into Argentina. You are reading different things on line; and I think you're confusing/mixing apples with oranges.

From what I know and read, personal property - camera, computer, etc, arriving in your luggage is exempt - except cell phones. Commercial goods, in your luggage are prohibited; like commercial goods arriving in the US entry must be made with customs. You mention sicentific equipment, boxes from China, small box with toy cars - in my former trained mind not of that really falls into the realm of household or personal goods. The transportation of currency, into or out of Argentina is a seperate issue and you can't really apply currency regulations with other types of goods.

If I were the customs (or mail) person you were dealing with, no matter how polite you were as soon as you began to question me, I too would be on the "offensive" - and could see how the situation turned against you.

What is the scientific equipment - is it for commercial purposes?

The scientific equipment is cheap gear cost 35 dollars total, voltmeter (one i bought before and LIKE) and a guazmeter (1 I bought before and like) and a watch (one I bought before and LIKE) these things were stolen when we came here, so instead of complaining I was just going to buy them again.

Question for you- --- you keep comparing it to yourself and your work------would you start lying to a person in an effort to intimidate them for no reason other than they wanted their belongings you were holding unlawfully?
 
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