Formosa: What is going on and why does it matter?

Alpinista

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With all my respect, you are new. Patricia Bullrich was a terrorist in the 70’s. She shows up in Formosa and violence begings. Coincidence? Mmmmm. All in the picture were terrorist:
Not only that. Until 1997 she was even a member of Peronist party ...
 

antipodean

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The recent decision to limit the power of the provinces and governors in taking unilateral lockdown measures that limit basic freedoms seems to come on the heels of the recent oppression witnessed in Formosa. The government finally seems to be understanding that peoples tolerance to excess is running out and more moderate and precise actions are needed. Still no criminal charges or investigations agains the province for the human rights abuses and extreme violence witnessed however.

Although the idea was maintained that the provincial leaders may establish "norms to limit circulation by hours or by zones," it was noted that "These measures must be temporary and well-founded, and must have the approval of the jurisdictional health authority."
...
In addition, the National Executive Branch clarified that the governors may order the isolation of people who enter their territories from other parts of the country, only "when they have the status of 'suspected case', the status of 'confirmed case' of COVID-19 or when they present symptoms of COVID-19 or are in close contact with those who suffer from the disease."

...
In dialogue with Infobae , a source close to Alberto Fernández had highlighted that the President was clear that it is necessary to restrict as little as possible and focus on the prevention of infections, with messages of care, instruction to avoid close contacts, and of discouragement of overseas flights. We are on alert for the situation on the continent ”.
...
This partly explains why the new DISPO stage does not include new closures and is in line with what Carla Vizzotti declared this Friday: “ Argentina worked to strengthen care with the aim of delaying the increase in cases as vaccination progresses. . We want to take care of social and productive activities ”.


Further adding to civil unrest in the interior, in Chubut today, Alberto Fernandez and his delegation were attacked by protesters at various locations who threw stones and attacked his vehicle.
 

mc kenna

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So far we have unrest in formosa, fires in the patagonia apparently intentionally set, usurpaciones in the buenos aires province, second wave of an even more contagious virus, chubut yesterday's protests, mendoza mentioning wanting to leave the republic and later some in cordoba echoed that too..... oh yes this is gonna be a swell fall season, meantime there's still no where near the number of vaccines needed before winter hits, prices still going up , fuel prices going up , the dollar being held by devaluating and burning dollar reserves.
Not to mention how we are reminded that our health system was never overwhelmed while thousands of argentines died of covid.
Pretty soon we are gonna wish we were back in 2020 instead of the shit storm is brewing for later on in 2021 , oh and also there are elections to be held in the middle of all this no?
 

antipodean

Registered
So far we have unrest in formosa, fires in the patagonia apparently intentionally set, usurpaciones in the buenos aires province, second wave of an even more contagious virus, chubut yesterday's protests, mendoza mentioning wanting to leave the republic and later some in cordoba echoed that too..... oh yes this is gonna be a swell fall season, meantime there's still no where near the number of vaccines needed before winter hits, prices still going up , fuel prices going up , the dollar being held by devaluating and burning dollar reserves.
Not to mention how we are reminded that our health system was never overwhelmed while thousands of argentines died of covid.
Pretty soon we are gonna wish we were back in 2020 instead of the shit storm is brewing for later on in 2021 , oh and also there are elections to be held in the middle of all this no?
Agree. We have to remember that this crisis that we are in the middle of is already worse than 2001. The difference is that it is a long shock versus a short shock and thus with more temporary (unsustainable) measures to make it “feel” less bad. There are only a few more f***k ups and collapses that can be tolerated before things start to boil over as we saw back then.

The problem for this government is that it is its own worst enemy having already made things more difficult for itself by being hyper divisive, dishonest, hypocritical and political about everything while focusing on “unimportant” and self-serving issues like “judicial reform”. This just results in making people more cynical and angry. Next time they really do need to do a lockdown or other measures to keep people safe or improve the economy, no one will believe them until it’s too late ultimately making things worse for everyone and perpetuating the crisis until they are no longer the government.

Personally I think the most responsible thing for this country would be for all levels of the government to step back and call early elections to present a clear mandate and get a vote of confidence or no-confidence from the people in order to navigate through the rest of this crisis. They were elected under very different circumstances than today and it’s clear that they are not delivering results in the face of our current issues, in large part because they don’t have the cooperation from the people and businesses necessary to get results. Without this there can only be authoritarianism and more underhanded measures and all that comes with that.
One can dream.
 

mc kenna

Registered
The problem with peronists is that if they can't be the government , they will destroy the country as they did in the 70s , so early elections are pretty much out the question from where i stand.
This country is crumbling at an increasing speed which in term will create a vacuum in power where some areas are going to be left to fend for themselves, point and case, some parts of the greater buenos aires ran by punteros or abandoned all together . Some neighborhoods in tucuman are using barricades to keep robbers out while calling 911 getting no response thus leaving no choice other than the neighbors patrolling their own streets armed with machetes.
Going back to the things i've seen here before, this winter there'll be shortages and pandemic running rampant due to people not sheltering in place as it happened last winter, also i don't discard the possibility of martial law in some parts of the country if not a nationwide one.
Of course i hope none of this happens as there will be a great loss of life but i'm making preparations to hunker down for months on end just in case
 

Alpinista

Registered
Agree. We have to remember that this crisis that we are in the middle of is already worse than 2001. The difference is that it is a long shock versus a short shock and thus with more temporary (unsustainable) measures to make it “feel” less bad. There are only a few more f***k ups and collapses that can be tolerated before things start to boil over as we saw back then.

The problem for this government is that it is its own worst enemy having already made things more difficult for itself by being hyper divisive, dishonest, hypocritical and political about everything while focusing on “unimportant” and self-serving issues like “judicial reform”.
One can dream.
I wasn't here in 2001/2, but I also think it is considerably worse than then. The main reason is: now the mid and long term outlook looks so bad, that nobody is going to invest here. So I just don't see anyone creating desperately needed jobs in the private sector over the next years. Yes, the situation twenty years back was also bad, but I don't think that pessimism was at the levels we see now, the state sector was not that over sized as it is now, they didn't have the inflation record we see now (they had more or less a decade without inflation in the 90's if I am not mistaken), taxes were lower etc.

From my point of view, the current government has exactly two goals in mind: somehow survive the mid-term elections this year and to get - one way or another - impunity for Kirchner, Boudou, etc.
 

Bajo_cero2

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I wasn't here in 2001/2, but I also think it is considerably worse than then. The main reason is: now the mid and long term outlook looks so bad, that nobody is going to invest here. So I just don't see anyone creating desperately needed jobs in the private sector over the next years. Yes, the situation twenty years back was also bad, but I don't think that pessimism was at the levels we see now, the state sector was not that over sized as it is now, they didn't have the inflation record we see now (they had more or less a decade without inflation in the 90's if I am not mistaken), taxes were lower etc.

From my point of view, the current government has exactly two goals in mind: somehow survive the mid-term elections this year and to get - one way or another - impunity for Kirchner, Boudou, etc.
I disagree.
2001 crisis was because there was a restriction of cash withdraws that left 50% of irregular workers whithout salaries because employers had no cash to pay them under the table. You do not have that situation nowadays. All the opposite.
There cannot be impunity where there was no crime.
 

antipodean

Registered
Looks like the rules don’t actually apply to Formosa afterall.
As always the government just talks smoke and protects their friends while persecuting their enemies.
 
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