Get your pots out for the lads!

[Matt84]

I would like to slap Tom into the 18th century not for months but just for one moment and see what becomes of his ideas.
Quiet honestly I sympathize with all POV laid out here. You need more than a pair of hands to discover the elephant.

@Tom, you clearly display piety, and you are obviously immersed in a World that most of us only read about. Good for you, I wish I had your life for maybe a week a year- as outraged as you may be, people like Nico and half this msg board, understand that economics is not always a zero sum game.

@Nico. Ignorance is not your problem. Just as Tom's immersed in Corrientes, you have immersed yourself in History and Economics (with a good dose of common sense) to realize and spell the obvious> we all come from utter poverty, fear and darkness. Wealth can be created.
The Cacerolazos are probably about wealth creation and how limited it is in a Mixed Economy - not that the ones banging pots could actually either spell their case or vote for the proper representatives.

@The Vikings. You have some beautiful societies up there, but they only work under certain parameters I don't dare spell. It wouldn't work in Latin America.
Allow Professor Friedman explain this in a suitable atmosphere.

 

[nicoenarg]

I fear you are the most dangerous sort of man even more ignorant than than they are and with education.. I would love to slap you into their lives for a few months and see what becomes of you!

You are beyond ingnorance nico and into shamelessness.. My guess shallow man! the world spins around you Nico!

Lol! Just read this little gem this morning and cracked up.

Really? That's what you've got to say? I always knew these "pretend saviors" are pretty darn moronic. Thanks for proving my point.

If you do get to being able to use more than negative 5% of your brain, I'd like an answer to the questions I asked.

And I repeat, you come across as saying that these people are incapable of helping themselves and can't be better without your help. And you accuse me of thinking the world spins around me? Wow, you're the ignorant one (its not "ingnorance", spell it right, or your followers might stumble) here.

 

[Gringoboy]

Getting back on topic...................
Emails and social networks are circulating calls to get your pots and pans out tonight, tomorrow and Friday.
With this weather the way it is, we'll try but for how long I'm not sure. Let's hope we find a choripan street vendor

 

[Matt84]

Getting back on topic...................
Emails and social networks are circulating calls to get your pots and pans out tonight, tomorrow and Friday.
With this weather the way it is, we'll try but for how long I'm not sure. Let's hope we find a choripan street vendor

Ok, thanks for that. But WHY would you wanna take part in that circus?

Do you not consider it a circus? maybe less than that?

Really I just don't get it why Argentines do it, and I certainly don't get why expats would.

Let's just acknowledge that this is a cultural event, where a feeling of "middle class" community is achieved by the banging of pots n-sync . Hey maybe it's a requiem for the middle class!

 

[nicoenarg]

@Nico...not that the ones banging pots could actually either spell their case or vote for the proper representatives.

Thank you! And that is a huge problem. The question is whether they are incapable of or just unwilling to get people into office that actually represent them. I think they lack the will. It is easier to bang pots than to formulate a real plan.

I know it sounds harsh, everyone wants to think that the movement they're taking part in or supporting is the one that's going to change things for the better but I would ask people to look in the general direction of Egypt and see how that panned out. Hanging out in the Tahrir square was not enough and months later, they're still fighting. There is no clear cause, no clear leader (that is why the Muslim Brotherhood has stepped in). Its always the same policy, a different tool.

 

[Matt84]

Thank you! And that is a huge problem. The question is whether they are incapable of or just unwilling to get people into office that actually represent them. I think they lack the will. It is easier to bang pots than to formulate a real plan.

They also lack any grassroots political framework where they can actually change the laws that affect each district. Aside from the Unidad Basica of course.

btw Tahrir Sq. always come to mind when I see a lot of people together for some fuzzy reason and less clear a goal. Mubarak and Peron are similar enough, but who would you say is the analogue movement to Muslim Brotherhood in Argentina?

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Thank you! And that is a huge problem. The question is whether they are incapable of or just unwilling to get people into office that actually represent them. I think they lack the will. It is easier to bang pots than to formulate a real plan.

I know it sounds harsh, everyone wants to think that the movement they're taking part in or supporting is the one that's going to change things for the better but I would ask people to look in the general direction of Egypt and see how that panned out. Hanging out in the Tahrir square was not enough and months later, they're still fighting. There is no clear cause, no clear leader (that is why the Muslim Brotherhood has stepped in). Its always the same policy, a different tool.

I do wonder what papers you read...nothing has happened in Egypt????

Except for the free elections and the life sentence for the dictator who responsible for a few hundred deaths during the uprising...you're right.

 

[nicoenarg]

btw Tahrir Sq. always come to mind when I see a lot of people together for some fuzzy reason and less clear a goal. Mubarak and Peron are similar enough, but who would you say is the analogue movement to Muslim Brotherhood in Argentina?

I am not informed enough about Argentine political movements to comment on that but I would hope there is none. As MB in Egypt gained popularity, the number of Copts murdered increased too.

Tunisia has a government that is an offshoot of MB right now and just the other day some Tunisians beheaded Christians and released a video. Tunisia used to be one of the most moderate and tolerant of these countries.

We have to remember that these movements started with just a dude burning himself (poor guy actually, he was persecuted by the state). But after that people had no idea what to do but to become a mob and protest. And now their societies are a dump and worse than they were when they'd started.

That's what I'm scared of when it comes to Argentines (or anyone else) protesting without a clear goal. Its not a coincidence that the economy here collapses every ten years or so, its just that the people keep electing one Peron after another.

 

[nicoenarg]

I do wonder what papers you read...nothing has happened in Egypt????

Except for the free elections and the life sentence for the dictator who responsible for a few hundred deaths during the uprising...you're right.

That's funny. I don't read papers Dublin2BuenosAires, I was actually involved in the movement.

Where to you it sounds "oh so amazing" that they have just had "free-elections" and that they just gave life sentence to Mubarak, it means nothing on the ground. The "free elections" just managed to bring Ahmad Shafiq (Mubarak's Prime Minister, an ex military guy, just like Mubarak) and Mohamed Masri (or Musri) who is an Islamist representing Muslim Brotherhood.

This amidst the fact that most of the people voted for more moderate candidates who have all but disappeared now. There are protesters in Tahrir square today.

What do they want to achieve? No one knows because all they want is "No Masri, No Shafiq, the revolution is only halfway through". All they wanted before was, "No Mubarak!". Clear goals indeed.

As for Mubarak, they're not happy about that. Where Mubarak is getting life sentence, his security officials, the people responsible for torture and carrying out the killings are let go (its like killing Hitler and freeing all his generals).

Reading the news, you may think, "wow, a people, united for a cause" and "woah, free elections", but I would suggest you research more before you get behind a movement. The Western press has made a lot out of the Egyptian movement but they have done so at the expense of facts.

 

[surfing]

I do wonder what papers you read...nothing has happened in Egypt????

Except for the free elections and the life sentence for the dictator who responsible for a few hundred deaths during the uprising...you're right.

"the life sentence of the dictator"....
Mubarak AND his sons were acquitted on all the corruption charges so with the sons free I expect Mubarak's staged death at any moment. The same people are in charge in Egypt as before the "revolution" and I suspect they will be after the runoff elections as well, but that story doesn't play as well in the sound bite media that prefers neat and tidy endings to their stories.