Here's A Little Story...

[jbhenson]

Did you ever think it might not have been as simple as you think it is?

Have you ever had weird things happen that you explained away as coincidence?

See the same people over and over?

remember OPSEC, be careful!

Things are often not as they appear!

 

[steveinbsas]

If and when mc kenna returns to this topic it would be interesting to know if he had a permit for the gun and what "charge" he is now on probation for.

Was it having the gun in his car (away from his home) or brandishing it when confronted by the man he felt threatened by...or both?

The local police told me that I could do whatever is necessary to defend myself in my own home (especially at night), including using a gun, but I would have to have a permit in order to avoid legal problems of my own.

If there is a lawyer out there who knows exactly what the laws are I would appreciate if he would share that information.

 

[jbhenson]

If and when mc kenna returns to this topic it would be interesting to know if he had a permit for the gun and what "charge" he is now on probation for.

Was it having the gun in his car (away from his home) or brandishing it when confronted by the man he felt threatened by...or both?

The local police told me that I could do whatever is necessary to defend myself in my own home (especially at night), including using a gun, but I would have to have a permit in order to avoid legal problems of my own.

If there is a lawyer out there who knows exactly what the laws are I would appreciate if he would share that information.

When they assaulted my house in Epuyen, all of them had guns, they beat my wife with them. Tied her up with wires, then robbed us of everything we had.
The Police caught them, arrested them WITH GUNS, BULLETS, DRUGs, our property, and the property of others they had robbed.They had that an 100 dollar bills with the serial numbers that had been stolen from us, then what happened?

the prosecuting attorney asked the judge for them to be released because she said she had lack of evidence, because she said we wouldnt come there and had left the country, a lie, we asked her several times if we needed to come back, and gave her our address and numbers here in CABA. She said no because my wife identified them, and I identified them as leaving when I was coming back home.

But if McKenna had a gun they arrest him and put him on probation, doesn't that seem like selective enforcement?
Looks to me like they want you to be robbed, and dont put up a fight or you will be arrested for protecting yourself.
Thieves go unchecked because they make money for the system, honest people trying to protect themselves are prosecuted, Odd what the world is becoming isnt it?

 

[Pensador]

I read these stories and I am thankful I have never had an encounter face to face with thieves. I have never been bothered in the streets here or in Uruguay. Yes I have had car windows broken and the likes but never an encounter with thieves. Only time I have been robbed was in the states one night. I was drunk and I knew I could not defend myself so just defused the situation giving the crack heads my cash as a gesture of kindness, before it even went to the we want your money thing which was obviously taking form. Then told them I need 20 for a taxi they had no issue with that and on my way I went. It is just money anyway. Live to fight another day when I am not drunk. LOL! This was like 20 years ago, not drunk I could have crushed the skinny little crack heads. But there were obviously looking for drunks to roll and found one that Saturday night.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

If and when mc kenna returns to this topic it would be interesting to know if he had a permit for the gun and what "charge" he is now on probation for.

Was it having the gun in his car (away from his home) or brandishing it when confronted by the man he felt threatened by...or both?

The local police told me that I could do whatever is necessary to defend myself in my own home (especially at night), including using a gun, but I would have to have a permit in order to avoid legal problems of my own.

If there is a lawyer out there who knows exactly what the laws are I would appreciate if he would share that information.

During night, the is a special permission for killing that is called “escalamiento nocturno de morada” where if some one breaks into your home, you can kill him no quedtions asked.
During day there are 3 requirements: 1) lack of enough provocation; 2) ilegal and actual aggression and 3) proportionality on the defense.

You cannot argue legit defense if you provoked the fight (you insulted the other driver and then he attacks you).
The attack must be illegal (the criminals cannot atgue legit defense).
And actual (you cannot kill when they are already escaping).
The ladt one is the proportionality of force used. If someone assert that his is going to hit you, you cannot shoot him. When who attackd you is insane, you must escape intead of killing him.

 

[ben]

You cannot argue legit defense if you provoked the fight (you insulted the other driver and then he attacks you).

Let’s get this straight. Guy cut you off on the road. You called him an SOB. He pulls a gun. He looks like he’ll be shooting. You can’t use lethal force?

When who attackd you is insane, you must escape intead of killing him.

And if you’re 60% sure that escaping is an option? Or that he’s sane? How much are people expected to weigh when it comes to saving their own skin?

 

[steveinbsas]

Guy cut you off on the road. You called him an SOB. He pulls a gun. He looks like he’ll be shooting. You can’t use lethal force?

And if you’re 60% sure that escaping is an option? Or that he’s sane? How much are people expected to weigh when it comes to saving their own skin?

These are great questions, but this hypothetical situation isn't quite what happened to mc kenna. I'm.making this point here in case anyone reading this hasn't read (or doesn't remember) mc kenna's version of what happened to him. I had to reread his story to be sure of what he said happened.

For those who still haven't read the first few posts in this thread, mc kenna wrote that he was bumped from behind and chased on dark country roads by a truck that was bigger than his, but he didn't say that the driver of the truck that was chasing him pulled a gun, nor did he indicate what the driver of the bigger told the police about the incident, except that mc kennna "pointed a gun at him" after he rolled his truck.

I would like to know why the driver of the bigger truck wasn't charged with anything if he actually rear-ended mc kenna's truck and then chased him, and I would still like to know what crime mc kennaa is now on probation for: was it brandishing a firearm or being in possession of a firearm without a federal permit...or both? I hope mc kenna will provide the answers

Dr Rubilar gave a clear answer to my question regarding the actions that individuals can legally take to defend themselves in their own home,s but mc kenna's harrowing experience happened away from his house and at night. If he provides more information about the charges, perhaps we can get a better idea of what defensive actions are"legal "when you're not at home.

As far as I can tell, mc kenna did not actually use any force, He only made his weapon visible to his pursuer. We don't know what the pursuer's intentions were when he rear-ended mc kenna's rtuck and then chased him, but I think it's safe to say that the presence of the weapon prevented the pursuer from perpetrating what might have been a very serious crime.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

It is difficult to say without reading the criminal file.
Whatever that involves a gun in this country is a mess because you need a special permit to carry it with you (portacion), very difficult to acchieve.
So, if he showed the gun, it is a crime. If he had a gun in the car available, it is a crime (you must trasport it without bullets in a gun box locked by a padlock).
And with all my respect to Mc Kenna, even we do not like each other, people usually do not say the whole true about crimes.
If he cannot post it is because he is probably under ordinary arrest (not fir deportation because I was at the jail for foreigners on Friday and he was not there).
If he is under arrest, a couple of advices: a) you have the right to be in a Federal facility where discipline is hard but it is more alike the jails we see in the movies from the US and B )you can ask to be moved to Barker model penitenciary that is an hotel if you compare it with the standard ones that are overpopulated, dirty, etc.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Let’s get this straight. Guy cut you off on the road. You called him an SOB. He pulls a gun. He looks like he’ll be shooting. You can’t use lethal force?

And if you’re 60% sure that escaping is an option? Or that he’s sane? How much are people expected to weigh when it comes to saving their own skin?

You can always use lethal force but you go to jail.

 

[ben]

You can always use lethal force but you go to jail.

Not exactly a satisfactory answer. Assuming the law is fair, "can" is used as shorthand for "what the law expects you to do".

To have to run a legal analysis while staring down the muzzle of a gun, is not rational law.

To be considered the instigator if you insulted someone and he responds by pulling a gun, leaving you with a choice of jail or death, is not rational law.