Here's A Little Story...

[Bajo_cero2]

The law is the law Ben you like it or not.

 

[ben]

Well I didn't suggest armed rebellion, did I?

That said, there's more than like or not. There's law which is simply, plainly, wrong - without justification.

This is an example of such a law. And so far, people are still free to say it out loud.

Assuming you are correct - and I have little reason to doubt it - I appreciate you bringing it to people's attention. But it is definitely wrong law.

If I am not threatening you nor your property and you point a gun at me, anything I do in self-defense should be lawful and treated as such.

To be considered the instigator if you insulted someone and he responds by pulling a gun, leaving you with a choice of jail or death, may well be the law. But it does not consequently become neither rational nor fair.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

it is more complex than that.
If you kill in self defence without the three requirements you don’t do simple murder, you commit excess in self defence where instead of 8/25 years you face 1/5 years of jail because the art. 35 of the criminal code says it is considered reckless homicide.

 

[ben]

it is more complex than that.
If you kill in self defence without the three requirements you don’t do simple murder, you commit excess in self defence where instead of 8/25 years you face 1/5 years of jail because the art. 35 of the criminal code says it is considered reckless homicide.

Then it is slightly less monstrous than appeared before.

But in the case of the hypothetical I outlined above, good law is where the person serves precisely zero days in prison, and is convicted of precisely nothing.

There will always be edge cases that the law will have trouble with. But where you are not threatening anyone and facing a gun, should be an open and shut case. When you are not breaking the law nor constituting a threat, under no circumstances should the alternative to violent death be jail time - or any criminal penalty whatsoever.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Ben, life is not a kindergarden, the law is the law. However, until Macri became President you espected/wait the trial free, now you know.

 

[ben]

I'm sure you'll be so good as to explain what kindergarten has to do with this.

Are you unaware that laws are made by men, and some are unfair?

Just pointed out that the law as you state it, is monstrously unfair.

If your life is in danger, you've done nothing illegal, and are threatening nobody, you should not have to choose between death and jail.

That that appears to be beyond you, is amazing.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Kindergarden: naive : childish arguments.

If your life is in danger, you first kill and later you hire a lawyer. Now you know whar the rules are.

 

[ben]

Thanks for the advice, Einstein.

How is that relevant to the fact that to face jail time after that, is irrational and unfair?

That was the point, remember?

Either you disagree with that - I'd love to hear the argument - or why are we still discussing this?

 

[mc kenna]

If and when mc kenna returns to this topic it would be interesting to know if he had a permit for the gun and what "charge" he is now on probation for.

Was it having the gun in his car (away from his home) or brandishing it when confronted by the man he felt threatened by...or both?

The local police told me that I could do whatever is necessary to defend myself in my own home (especially at night), including using a gun, but I would have to have a permit in order to avoid legal problems of my own.

If there is a lawyer out there who knows exactly what the laws are I would appreciate if he would share that information.

I was accused of brandishing a weapon when the guy cut me off,so the legal term is amenaza calificada y tenencia de arma de guerra(of course without a permit)
The thing is that my gun only came out after my truck was rolled over 5 kms beyond my home , as i didn't want this maniac to know where i lived,none of that was investigated, nor i was offered a medical check up before being cuffed and taken to jail,in short. the second time i was rearended never was mentioned on their official report...which i had to sign if i wanted to get my probation or wait 2 to 3 years in jail for the trial..... open and shut case just before the elections, and all it took is for the other guy to have a "witness" and called 911 first to claim his victim status.......

 

[RichardP]

I have an acquaintance here who is a personal injury lawyer (ambulance chaser). He explained to me that part of his job is to "preparar testigos." Essentially to hire people who will lie saying they witnessed an accident and prepare them for any questions a judge may have. I asked him if that was standard procedure and he said "if I don't do this I will lose every case because the other side is doing the same."