Insecurity Here is Real

[Davidglen77]

Counseling may help to deal with the trauma of having been robbed at gun point but it won't change the high crime reality of BA. For some people who have options, leaving may be the best course of action.

Sorry to say that there is crime all over the country. The Province of BA is actually worse than the city. People who live in well guarded gated communities have crime. Sometimes the security personnel are behind the crime, just as the police are sometimes responsible for crime directly or indirectly.

There is crime in small towns all over Argentina. Towns in the province of BA are far from an exception. I know people who own homes there and they have been victims.

When I first arrived in BA during the Menem years it was remarkably safe compared to now. Since then I have seen rapid deterioration, if not degradation, in most areas of the society. It is sad.

The Kirchner governments have pointed the finger at the US, Britain or some other imaginary enemy to take attention away from the pathetic reality that they have created: a country of uncontrolled crime, enormous corruption, inferior education, social deprivation and injustice. As the population get more and more ignorant due to poor education and poverty, they are more susceptible to the Kirchner propaganda machine. Just look at the nonsense going on over the US Army's cargo plane! What sane government would make a major diplomatic issue out of a non-issue -- and with a country as important as the US?

I agree that Argentina is a very poor environment in which to raise children but not just from the perspective of crime. Children need a better moral environment. They need to learn about ethics and humane values and not how to get around the system, how to cheat, lie and take advantage without any concern for your neighbors or society at large. They should also grow up in a political system that respects the law and protects the rights of its citizens.

There is no ideal society but some are better than others and Argentina has been fast sliding into oblivion under the Kirchners.

And what country do you propose has such a system "that respects the law and protects the rights of its citizens."

I can´t say exactly what is the cause of the rising crime rate. However (I know I am going to get beat up on this one) I don't think it's directly related to the Kirchner administration. This country has some deep seated issues that put the haves and the have nots against each other that were in place even before the Kirchner's showed up on the mainstream political map. What's happening now is that the country is growing, there are simply more people and unfortunately crime will continue to rise in proportion with the population. That's a fact that will never change whether you are in Argentina or not. One thing I know from a personal point of view, people in this world act out (in different ways) when they feel unheard and powerless. My reaction is to knock on doors over and over and over and make noise and scream and annoy everybody I possibly can until I get heard and some type of resolution. There are others who take out their frustration with deadly weapons. So maybe what needs to happen is they need to address what is angering the people in the lower socioeconomic strata (few job propects, substandard housing, low quality schools, poor infrastructure, etc) and address those concerns, because they seem to be the majority of the people committing the crimes.

 

[Roxana]

I was robbed for first time in Argentina when I was 18 months old, pointed with a gun to my head. I didnt speak properly at the age of 3, so my parents took me to the doctors and counselling. It helped me out, however when I am tired or stressed I have some trouble to pronounce some letters. So, i advice you to bring your baby to counseling.

I was robbed several times in my life, the last one was a couple of weeks ago, when the thief showed to me a 38 long (which means a gun 30 cm long). I am traumatized with the situation, going through it with the support of my family and friends, plus the professional support of my pshychoanalist.

I dont want to get into politics, or compare with other countries' reality, because it is not going to change the pain and trauma that the fact means to you.

 

[ben]

I'm so sorry to hear this. This is decidedly not a safe city. My parents-in-law (who are from here) got robbed at gunpoint a few years ago; a girl working in the house had opened the door for them. Many of my family and friends have similar, really bad stories. I also had someone on a bike try to grab my phone on the street. One of the first things I learned when I came here is that in the provincia, stopping at red lights is up to your discretion, and often a bad idea, especially at night.

While I agree with the political undertone to this being expressed here, I do think the last line of the last comment is true. This is a terrible thing to go through. May it be your last, here and anywhere.

 

[BROOKLYN]

Blame it on the Crack/Paco epidemic..and who brought in this drug?

 

[Amargo]

Sorry to say that there is crime all over the country. The Province of BA is actually worse than the city. People who live in well guarded gated communities have crime. Sometimes the security personnel are behind the crime, just as the police are sometimes responsible for crime directly or indirectly.

There is crime in small towns all over Argentina. Towns in the province of BA are far from an exception. I know people who own homes there and they have been victims.

Sorry, but this is not true. I have my family spread across 10 provinces and violent crime is really unusual there. I wonder what you mean by 'Province of Buenos Aires'...

I agree that Argentina is a very poor environment in which to raise children but not just from the perspective of crime. Children need a better moral environment. They need to learn about ethics and humane values and not how to get around the system, how to cheat, lie and take advantage without any concern for your neighbors or society at large. They should also grow up in a political system that respects the law and protects the rights of its citizens.

There is no ideal society but some are better than others and Argentina has been fast sliding into oblivion under the Kirchners.

Every country has pros and cons. Argentina remains a family society and I think children are more accepted and tolerated here than in Western Europe, for example.Other societies teach children that as long as they can pay for things they have the right of posession, independently of the damage they're causing to the environmentand of the vicious energy consumption per capita their country has. For me this is inmoral.

 

[John.St]

I am very sorry to hear about your shocking experience.
I completely understand that your immediate response is to leave.
Problem is, of course, to which country.

While the robbery rate in Argentina (905 of 100,000 inhabitants) is much higher than in the US (146/100,000), in the Americas actually only Canada is safe, as both Mexico and the US have e.g. higher homicide rates than Argentina. The US is also above the 3rd Quartile according to the police recorded rape rate (US 30/100.000, Argentina 8.3/100.000) and far worse (US 786/100,000) than Argentina (366/100,000) when it comes to police recorded assault rates.

Canada or Northwestern European and some Central European countries seems to be best bets.

UN INTERNATIONAL STATISTICS on CRIME AND JUSTICE
http://www.unodc.org/documents/sout...onal_Statistics_on_Crime_and_Justice_2010.pdf

European Sourcebook of Crime and Criminal Justice Statistics
http://english.wodc.nl/images/ob241_fulltext_tcm45-97670.pdf

 

[mybeautifulair]

So sorry that this happened to you. Glad you were physically unharmed.

 

[Lamb]

Counseling may help to deal with the trauma of having been robbed at gun point but it won't change the high crime reality of BA. For some people who have options, leaving may be the best course of action.

Sorry to say that there is crime all over the country. The Province of BA is actually worse than the city. People who live in well guarded gated communities have crime. Sometimes the security personnel are behind the crime, just as the police are sometimes responsible for crime directly or indirectly.

There is crime in small towns all over Argentina. Towns in the province of BA are far from an exception. I know people who own homes there and they have been victims.

When I first arrived in BA during the Menem years it was remarkably safe compared to now. Since then I have seen rapid deterioration, if not degradation, in most areas of the society. It is sad.

The Kirchner governments have pointed the finger at the US, Britain or some other imaginary enemy to take attention away from the pathetic reality that they have created: a country of uncontrolled crime, enormous corruption, inferior education, social deprivation and injustice. As the population get more and more ignorant due to poor education and poverty, they are more susceptible to the Kirchner propaganda machine. Just look at the nonsense going on over the US Army's cargo plane! What sane government would make a major diplomatic issue out of a non-issue -- and with a country as important as the US?

I agree that Argentina is a very poor environment in which to raise children but not just from the perspective of crime. Children need a better moral environment. They need to learn about ethics and humane values and not how to get around the system, how to cheat, lie and take advantage without any concern for your neighbors or society at large. They should also grow up in a political system that respects the law and protects the rights of its citizens.

There is no ideal society but some are better than others and Argentina has been fast sliding into oblivion under the Kirchners.

How is it a non-issue when the US unannounced sends a plane loaded with army equipment to a country? Think of the reaction of the US if it were the other way around. Within a week theyd be here saying this place is the next Afghanistan and that its full of terrorists.

 

[steveinbsas]

How is it a non-issue when the US unannounced sends a plane loaded with army equipment to a country? Think of the reaction of the US if it were the other way around. Within a week theyd be here saying this place is the next Afghanistan and that its full of terrorists.

This is way off the topic, and the plane was not sent "unannounced" into Argentina. It was sent here for joint exercises where the US military team was supposed to provide Argentine police with anti terrorist training and there were "undeclared guns, ammo and advanced spy equipment" that the Argentine government was happy to make an issue about...as well as confiscate.

There's already a thread about it here: Little Cristina Upset Crush Barack Didn't...

 

[Lamb]

This is way off the topic, and the plane was not sent "unannounced" into Argentina. It was sent here for joint exercises where the US military team was supposed to provide Argentine police with anti terrorist training and there were "undeclared guns, ammo and advanced spy equipment" that the Argentine government was happy to make an issue about...as well as confiscate.

There's already a thread about it here: Little Cristina Upset Crush Barack Didn't...

Sorry, someone else mentioned it before in this thread and i just responded to that. I guess unannouced was the wrong word then, its just what i got from the story my boyfriend told me about what was appearing in the newspapers here. Ill read into it more.