Insecurity Here is Real

[dr__dawggy]

Sorry, someone else mentioned it before in this thread and i just responded to that. I guess unannouced was the wrong word then, its just what i got from the story my boyfriend told me about what was appearing in the newspapers here. Ill read into it more.

From the US State Department....

Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs

February 17, 2011

On February 10, 2011, a U.S. Department of Defense team arrived in Buenos Aires to conduct hostage-rescue and crisis-management training with elements of the Argentine Federal Police. This exchange event had been approved in writing by the Ministry of Security on February 7, 2011, and earlier had been approved by the Ministry of Justice. It had also been coordinated with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
The U.S. government approached all elements of the program with a clear commitment to respect applicable Argentine law, in accordance with the procedures and precedent established through bilateral diplomatic dialogue.
In order to clarify the facts, the following information is a timeline of events:

• The cargo was duly manifested in accordance with previous discussions and understandings based on prior successful training events with the Argentine Government, most recently in August 2009. All items brought into Argentina on February 10, 2011, were materials that would normally be brought in during a hostage rescue and crisis management training. We held multiple planning and coordination sessions in Argentina between U.S. and Argentine officials.
• During these discussions, the issue of non-serialized replacement barrels for three machine guns to be used in live-fire training was raised by U.S. officials with their Argentine counterparts. At that time, Argentine National Registry of Arms (RENAR) officials agreed that each of those machine guns and their replacement components would be considered one weapon system for purposes of the manifest.
• There was one discrepancy regarding the declared weapons on the official list provided to Argentine officials. Numerals contained in the serial number of one of the weapons were transposed. However, the quantity and type of weapon was consistent with the official manifest.
• Communications equipment was included in manifests provided to both RENAR and customs officials under “radios and computers” or “major end items.” The overall communications operating system was among the declared items on official manifests, even though individual component parts of that system were not listed separately. This is consistent with established practice and procedure during previous joint training exchange events involving U.S. and Argentine personnel.
• In reference to the “psychotropic drugs” and “narcotics” to which the Ministry of Foreign Affairs referred, the U.S. Department of State notes that among the non-declared items were a medical kit and first-aid items belonging to one of the team members, a U.S. Army medic. The kit included a small amount of morphine as well as other first-aid items, none of which were intended for use by non-U.S. personnel. These medications are standard items that the U.S. hostage-rescue team carries during routine training missions and are intended to be used in the event any U.S. team member suffers injury during the live-fire exercises conducted as part of the training. These items were not declared on the official manifest based on precedent established during previous joint-training events involving U.S. and Argentine personnel.
• The remaining non-declared items that the Government of Argentina has detained include miscellaneous items such as Meals Ready to Eat (MREs), batteries, clothing, office supplies, coolers for beverages, folding chairs, candy, and the U.S. team members’ personal gear.

 

[Johnno]

May not be a suitable question for an open forum like this but I'm wondering if the solution isn't simply to get tooled up and get in a bit of range time. I know this is definitely an option for anyone with DNI or citizenship - and I would assume like any other country there are all sorts of options out there for those without dni/citizenship who are a little bit creative and/or resourceful... Just a thought...

 

[sergio]

And what country do you propose has such a system "that respects the law and protects the rights of its citizens."

I can´t say exactly what is the cause of the rising crime rate. However (I know I am going to get beat up on this one) I don't think it's directly related to the Kirchner administration. This country has some deep seated issues that put the haves and the have nots against each other that were in place even before the Kirchner's showed up on the mainstream political map. What's happening now is that the country is growing, there are simply more people and unfortunately crime will continue to rise in proportion with the population. That's a fact that will never change whether you are in Argentina or not. One thing I know from a personal point of view, people in this world act out (in different ways) when they feel unheard and powerless. My reaction is to knock on doors over and over and over and make noise and scream and annoy everybody I possibly can until I get heard and some type of resolution. There are others who take out their frustration with deadly weapons. So maybe what needs to happen is they need to address what is angering the people in the lower socioeconomic strata (few job propects, substandard housing, low quality schools, poor infrastructure, etc) and address those concerns, because they seem to be the majority of the people committing the crimes.

No doubt there are underlying social problems that have to be dealt with and these did not start with the Kirchners but they have increased under the corrupt and hypocritical Kirchner administrations. There is no justification for crime, especially violent crime, however social deprivation is part of the reason along with a deep moral decline. As I said in my original post, lack of education is a key issue. The Kirchners talk about education but do nothing. The situation grows worse by the day. As for better societies, most of Europe, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand among possible others have far more just governments, fair and transparent court systems and a balance of power.

 

[stefano]

Sorry to hear about a family being robbed in any venue. I think crime is on the rise everywhere and I think the rise is directly related to the world economic crisis. Granted, there will always be criminals but when times are tough there seems to be more of them.

One of the earlier posts claimed that the crime rate in BA was down when Menem (sp?) was in power. If I recall, Argentina's economy was in good shape for most of his tenure. Anyway, I think all of us should start walking around with eyes in the back of our heads.

 

[sergio]

.
"I wonder what you mean by 'Province of Buenos Aires"
Someone posted this, stating that the writer has family spread over ten provinces. If so, I am astonished that the writer does not know what the Province of Buenos Aires is! It makes it a bit hard to take the writer's post seriously!

Someone else mentioned crime statistics. They are really useless as a great deal of crime is NEVER reported to the police. I know that I did not bother when I was robbed -- I attempted to report it but the police discouraged me pointing out that what happened to me happens all the time and that the thief would never be caught, so why bother with a lot of senseless paper work? Other people avoid reporting robberies as they are afraid of the police will come, case their homes and then come back to rob.

I've lived in a number of major cities around the world, in the US, Europe, Asia as well as BA and I have never had any problem except in BA. Just about every Argentine friend has been robbed, a few assaulted. That is definitely not the case of friends elsewhere.

Yes, drugs and poverty are factors but so is moral decline. A society based on cheating and lying at all levels of society is more likely to breed crime.

Where did the drugs come from? I suppose Columbia or other parts of Latin America. There are many stories of Argentina being a drug distribution center with high level politicians involved. I don't know but I know that drugs are widespread and would seem to be a factor in the brutal crimes being committed.

It is really tragic that a city that was quite safe by international standards, has declined so rapidly.

 

[xibeca]

Moving away from one of the worst barrios in Buenos Aires could be a good idea too.

There is no ideal society but some are better than others and Argentina has been fast sliding into oblivion under the Kirchners.

How has it been sliding in to oblivion under the Kirchners? Care to explain what you mean by that? Because don't you think the economical problems that currently exist in Argentina stems from the huge debt acquired during the Menem administration?

 

[Celia]

People at the lower end of the wage scale can't keep up with inflation, their standard of living is rapidly deteriorating and they are resorting to desperate measures. Small time scams and fiddles are no longer enough to bolster a meagre income....it speaks volumes about the current state of the economy.

 

[xibeca]

People at the lower end of the wage scale can't keep up with inflation, their standard of living is rapidly deteriorating and they are resorting to desperate measures. Small time scams and fiddles are no longer enough to bolster a meagre income....it speaks volumes about the current state of the economy.

Actually no, poverty has fallen drastically since the crisis 10 years ago.

Inflation is a hidden tax, so we are effectively paying for the debt incurred during failed neo-liberal experiment that Menem implemented.

 

[Celia]

I don't know how that can be the case when loads of expats here are complaining about not being able to afford stuff! Surely people on low-end incomes are much worse off than 3 years ago when things were a third of the cost...

 

[xibeca]

I don't know how that can be the case when loads of expats here are complaining about not being able to afford stuff! Surely people on low-end incomes are much worse off than 3 years ago when things were a third of the cost...

Well if you earn your salary in Argentine Pesos you get a pay increase each year. So you are less affected than expats that earn their money in a foreign currency like the U.S dollar or Euro. But the main reason poverty has declined is that there is less unemployment now. So the end result is that they have it better off today.