Is President Kirchner Improving The Lives Of Argentinos?

[Yogur griego]

does it matter? whats the difference? they are all argentines and thats the thing.

Well, it's easy to make a politically correct statement to just 'solve' the problem, but immigration is getting out of hand when you see things like these happening. In case increasing villa-zation indeed leads to a drastic increase in crime, I am not too hopeful about the future of Buenos Aires. I have lived in other Latin American countries where this vicious circle is even worse, my caution has nothing to do with racism.

 

[trennod]

Very interesting remark. I have seen so many rapidly expanding villas in Rosario the last time when I was there. I always wonder whether there are middle-class people of European descent kind of retreating to these areas or just immigrants from poorer countries.

I think they are definitely expanding thanks to "immigrants" from poorer countries. The Ks immigration policies and/or success is another issue.

 

[John.St]

does it matter? whats the difference? they are all argentines and thats the thing.

It is my impression that this is an important part of the problem.

Many Argentinos do not see themselves as a part of the whole, they are Italian-Argentinos, Spanish-Argentinos, etc. and have - or do their very best to get - passports from the country of their parents' and grandparents' origin.

Feeling as one nation is the glue that binds a nation together, and that feeling includes a sense of responsibility towards every other Argentino - as far as I can tell, that feeling is missing in most Argentinos.

 

[JamJam]

Excuse me, but the 10 years of growth is a fact that no one denies. This government is the most pro-industria since the dictadura.

Matiasba, this is what real industry looks like, not "Industra, please kill any competition for me, Argentian"
http://www.rolls-royce.com/

 

[JamJam]

As for how the import restrictions have helped - one does understand that restrictions on import work for the best if a) one has a large enough internal population to support need and B) one has an efficient and effective industry to meet the demand of a. And that Argentina fits neither criteria.

Tell me, in all honesty, how have the import restrictions helped anyone? The consumer is left at the mercy of bad quality and high prices. The industries can't meet demand b/c they can't even get parts in that they need to make a, b, or c and thanks to the double whammy of inflation, can't afford to hire people to make things.

It is absolutely INSANE to me that it was cheaper for me to get on a plane and fly to Miami to buy things than it was to buy them here and they were much better quality. But true.

And industries AREN'T growing - that's the point. Yes, lots of "fabricas" down in Tierra del Fuego are coming online but around here - it's not the case.

Its a complicated issue. IMHO industry needs the support of government but not to the levels of what we are seeing here. Its sad to see so much ownership disappear from countries like the UK. Even though the UK is 10th biggest exporter in the world many of the most famous companies are foreign, Mini, Jaguar, Land Rover, Cadburys, O2... FFS we invented trains and only have one factory making them left, and that is Canadian.

So I guess there has to be a balance between completely free trade and a protectionism like in Argentina.

In simpleton terms my advice would be:
'If I woz the government, like, I wuld do wot those Germans av done, cause they like make stuff good and that'

 

[vagabundo]

Got a call from a friend in Argentina yesterday.. Has a wife 2 kids etc. Starts telling me the salaries cannot cut it anymore and how 100 pesos cannot buy anything in the market. I knew what was coming next.. Now this is an Argentine man I know has honor and pride and both he and his wife work full time. He starts to explain to me that it is difficult to pay all the bills and feed his children..

Now that is pain.. going from a lower middle class above water man to calling outside the country for help. Well what do you do? And even if you do that what does it mean when you know what is coming is far worse than what they are experiencing now?

 

[vagabundo]

Is the Argentine President, Cristina F. Kirchner improving the lives of the majority of Argentina's citizens and making their future prospects better?

Yes or No.

Please note the word "citizens". We are not talking about for example "perma-tourists" or expats.

Good question joe..

My guess the 7 yes clicks came from notebooks with the KFC logo glued on the front of them..

 

[Voiceofreason]

I dont agree with this. The main objective is to re-create the Argentine society of the XXth century. A country whose middle class was more than the 80% of its popultaion and with a very strong social mobility, with free health and education, with almost no poverty, with a well developed working class. A huge middle class country. Dont forget this country was raised by immigrants, so the bigger local fortunes were made in less than three generations. For instance, Macri, his grandfather came to this country with NOTHING, and he became a millionaire because of the opened and permeable social structure and the great capacity of mobility this country had.

This social mobility is the landmark of peronism. Again, Im not a peronist for sure but I must recognise it is the only sustainable socio-econommic model this country had. It was them or the militaries. Not by chance they were prohibited like for 20 years (think about it: the alternative plan to Peronism is to put an antidemocratic & anticonstitutional government and prohibite an entire party with its leaders... it doesnt make any sense!).

So the only project of constitucional and democratic government of society along the XXth century was the peronism. Sad, but true. Peronism also implies industrialization, means welfare state, full employment level, strong trade unions. Also, people getting envolved in politics, manifestations, participation.


Thats where this government is trying to go.

This is all very good, but totally off topic. The question is if CFK is improving the life of the Argentine people and the answer is an overwhelming NO. CFK has not been president since 2003 she has been for the past two years and in that time Argentines and Argentina has been in a downward spiral of no growth and chronic high inflation.

This is the link to the World Bank article and here is an important quote to ponder: http://www.bancomund...-america-latina

"Esta es una buena noticia para millones de latinoamericanos que caen dentro del rango de ingresos de $10-US $ 50 por habitante y día --el parámetro utilizado para determinar quien pertenece a la clase media. Sin embargo, en la medida en que las condiciones económicas globales empeoran, los expertos temen que esos flamantes miembros de la clase media se vean expulsados de su nuevo estatus."


According to this, to be middle class you have to earn between 10 and 50 USD a day. That means that using the unrealistic "official" exchange rate one has to earn between 50 and 250 pesos to be middle class, and with the Blue or "real" rate on has to earn between around 80 and 400 pesos to be considered middle class. For arguments sake lets agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle of these extremes, then to be middle class you have to earn 65 to 325 pesos a day.

So, extrapolating this to the 261 odd work days in 2013 we get a monthly salary of ~$1,414 pesos to be middle class, which is a total joke as it is well below the minimum wage in Argentina and therefore the measure is including millions of people who are in fact poor by official standards.

In the past two years, rampant inflation with a stagnant and in some sectors shrinking economy due to out of control fiscal spending, ~40% annual expansion of the monetary base (printing money) and an inexistent infrastructure policy (Once train massacre, your weekly blackouts etc) means we are poorer and getting poorer with no hope for the foreseeable future. This logic in undeniable, just think about the options you have availiable to keep your savings from depreciating and you'll see it is true. A country where your savings account does not pay interest above inflation is one that is doomed to fail.

Conclusion: Get out while you can or get paid in a foreign currency because this WILL get very ugly.

 

[Joe]

Menem did indeed preside over the unnecessary destruction of much of Argentina's manufacturing. He did this by government intervention in the currency markets - the dollarization policy. Menem idiotically decided to keep the value of the peso artificially high - thus unnecessarily destroying countless manufacturers.

Then, as today, Argentine industry is being destroyed by government intervention. These show-piece factories being built today may end up closing because they are being protected from international competition and producing shoddy products. Once the money runs out to protect them, they will will close. And the older manufacturers that actually produce a globally competitive product are being hamstrung by import restrictions on component parts. The result: more of Argentina's precious capital squandered by government bungling.

The history of the Argentine economy - Precious Argentine capital squandered by government intervention, corruption and bungling.

 

[sesamosinsal]

Menem did indeed preside over the unnecessary destruction of much of Argentina's manufacturing. He did this by government intervention in the currency markets - the dollarization policy. Menem idiotically decided to keep the value of the peso artificially high - thus unnecessarily destroying countless manufacturers.

Clearly, convertibility affected export revenue. But Menem also removed import tariffs, for example, which had a significant impact on the amount of imports that came into the country.

A floating exchange rate certainly hasn't saved manufacturing in the U.S., Spain, Greece--just to name a few. The policies enacted by these governments on trade do matter.