Pensionado Visa Peso requirement

[kai420]

No, I did not get any notification at all from the switch from supervisor approval to disposition of residency protocol.

I only noticed the change when I checked my status near the end of October.

In fact, step #9 was the "TRAMITE EN PROCESO DE SUPERVISION", with the date listed next to it always updated to the most current day.

When step #9 was still in-progress, step #10 was "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA"

When I checked my status at the end of October, and when I check it now, step #9 is now "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA", and is color coded in blue, which I would assume means in-progress.

There is no date listed next to "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA" and the "TRAMITE EN PROCESO DE SUPERVISION" has disappeared completely.

There is currently no date listed in the "Disposición" section, which is blank and greyed-out.

Clicking on the "Imprima su Precaria, Intimación o Disposición" button brings up my most recent precaria, showing a renewal date of 12 October and an expiration of 10 January.

I posted a question to this thread,

Significance of "Disposición de residencia protocolizada"

Hello all. I am trying to help a neighbor with her residency visa trámite. It's been an ordeal which she is eager to conclude. Yesterday on RADEX we noticed a status change from "TRAMITE EN PROCESO DE SUPERVISION" to "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA" Does this indicate in...

baexpats.org

Regarding the change from "TRAMITE EN PROCESO DE SUPERVISION" to "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA", as the OP describes noticing the same change as I did.

Other than myself, who was also searching for answers, no one else has contributed.

I can only assume that in time, perhaps after the election, the "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA" will generate and then will reflect when I click on the "Imprima su Precaria, Intimación o Disposición" button. That is my hope at least.

 

[kai420]

Additionally, I have received no email communication from immigrations since 14 August

 

[Jon D]

Lots of interesting and conflicting responses in this thread from what my lawyer told me. She seemed very competent and said she engages with the immigration office regularly on their policy. Her advice was to wait a bit until the rules are further clarified before doing anything since the converting to pesos doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think that I am going to contact another lawyer due to what I am reading here. Or just do it myself like kai420.

 

[kai420]

To be honest, and this is just my opinion, but the whole system seems dependent on who processes your case and what kind of day they have had when your file comes across their desk.

As far as I see it, other than the money spent in fees to apply for the visa (as well as lawyer fees as needed, which I do not think it truly necessary), what do you really have to lose versus what you gain?

Sure, in theory, if the banking in Argentina at the official rate is enforced on not just rentistas, but pensionados, then you can make a choice later down the road to leave and go somewhere else and apply for a visa in that country.

At the end of the day, and again, this is just my opinion, your desire to reside in Argentina should extend beyond just the financial benefits afforded to you as a foreigner via the blue dollar.

*If* your only motivation in being here is because of how your buying power is extended versus what it is in your home country, then go somewhere else if you disagree with the requirement to bank here at the official rate... which of course is a true unknown.

In the end, you will either be asked to do so, or you will not.

It could happen now, or, if not now, then maybe when you apply for renewal after your first year of temporary residency was approved... or maybe never.

Who knows what the future holds. That is why everyone here lives in the moment.

Which, if in the future, if that requirement is asked of you as a pensionado after having already been here at least a year on your visa, then you can either leave and go somewhere else, accept things as they are and bank at the official rate, or, switch your visa type to a student visa, apply, and go to school for a year (for free, for now) until you have reached the two-year threshold and qualify for naturalization (which is two years as opposed to three for permanent residency).

Most likely, if you are here in Argentina on a pensionado visa, you are not looking to work. You are only required to pay taxes on work sourced in Argentina, not benefits you are entitled to, especially if those benefits are tax-free from the U.S. federal government (in the case if SSA or VA).

Of course, banking in Argentina at the official rate, while not a tax, does decrease your buying power, (which would be even more the case if you were banking here AND paying taxes on income earned here).

Remember, in the case of SSA and VA, it is not, as far as the U.S. government is concerned, counted as earned income. It is unearned, or passive income.

In the case of SSA, it is an entitlement, based on your ability to work, while VA is compensation for your military service and illness and injury incurred in the line of duty.

The VA cannot make you better for your sacrifice, but they can give you money to help ease your pain and suffering.

There are always a work-around to every problem in life, you just have to be bold and creative and courageous enough to try.

Remember, ask for forgiveness, not permission.

Good luck.

 

[kai420]

Lots of interesting and conflicting responses in this thread from what my lawyer told me. She seemed very competent and said she engages with the immigration office regularly on their policy. Her advice was to wait a bit until the rules are further clarified before doing anything since the converting to pesos doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think that I am going to contact another lawyer due to what I am reading here. Or just do it myself like kai420.

Also, just my observation, but there seems to be a co-dependent, quid pro quo relationship between immigration lawyers and migraciones. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Manuel]

Also I heard it it possible to apply for Argentine citizenship immediately upon arrival, without getting a Pensionista visa, is that correct? That sounds like a cheaper option than being a Pensionista and changing dollars at the official rate for at least two years.

Not possible. 2 years as resident, under same residence permit category, to be elegible. Citizenship elegibility is easy but Santa Clauss does not exist.

 

[Manuel]

And if any existing Temporary Pensionista have been told by Migraciones since 1 June to start bringing in their pensions each month at 5X the minimum monthly salary or else they won't qualify to renew their temporary Pensionista residency or progress to Permanent residency, that too would be very helpful information.

Pensionist have same requirement as Rentista Visa Permit: passive income needs to be 5 times the minimum wage per month. If you cant proof that, you can take a whole year neccesary expenses to cover that: minimum wage salary (calculated at official rate exchange) x 5 x 12 months. That means that you are able to cover your expenses for an entire year (without depending on a monthly base passive income).

 

[kai420]

So, I just got this notification moments ago, after my status had been in "DISPOSICIÓN DE RESIDENCIA PROTOCOLIZADA" since late October. Now my status is "Tramite Intimado."

This is the first message I have received since submitting documentation on 14 August that they are requesting more information.

"You are hereby invited, within 30 days of notification, to submit to the Delegation of this DNM with jurisdiction over your domicile, the following documentation: ATTACH US CRIMINAL RECORD CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE FBI, APOSTILLED, TRANSLATED AND LEGALIZED BY THE COLLEGE OF PUBLIC TRANSLATORS OF CABA AND MUST PRESENT A BANK INSTRUMENT (BANK ACCOUNT) OR A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION AUTHORIZED BY THE CENTRAL BANK OF THE ARGENTINE REPUBLIC THAT CERTIFIES THE INCOME INTO THE COUNTRY OF THE FUNDS FROM THE PENSION ACCREDITED IN THE REFERENCE FILE. THE AMOUNT TO BE INTRODUCED MUST CORRESPOND AT MINIMUM TO A PERIOD OF SIXTY (60) DAYS CONSIDERING FIVE (5) SMV PER PER MONTH."

So, apparently the criminal report I provided from my state's highway patrol is insufficient and they are requiring a FBI check.

Furthermore, we now seem to have an answer about banking in Argentina.

I do not think I will be proceeding with my application because I do not want to bank my $5205 USD in pension in Argentina.

Plus, how do I even open a bank account here without a DNI?

So, this sucks.

Original:

"Por la presente se lo intima dentro de los 30 días de notificada/o a presentar ante la Delegación de esta DNM con jurisdicción sobre su domicilio, la siguiente documentación: ADJUNTAR CERTIFICADO DE ANTECEDENTES PENALES DE EEUU EMITIDOS POR EL FBI,APOSTILLADO ,TRADUCIDO Y LEGALIZADO ANTE EL COLEGIO DE TRADUCTORES PUBLICOS DE CABA Y DEBERÁ PRESENTAR INSTRUMENTO BANCARIO (CUENTA BANCARIA) O DE INSTITUCION FINANCIERA AUTORIZADA POR EL BANCO CENTRAL DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA QUE CERTIFIQUE EL INGRESO AL PAÍS DE LOS FONDOS PROVENIENTES DE LA PENSIÓN ACREDITADA EN EL EXPEDIENTE DE REFERENCIA . EL MONTO A INTRODUCIR DEBERÁ CORRESPONDERSE MÍNIMAMENTE CON UN PLAZO DE SESENTA (60) DÍAS CONSIDERANDO CINCO (5) SMV POR POR MES."

 

[Alby]

They clearly aren't coping with the new rules. It is legally possible to open a bank account here with a Precaria (which is pre-DNI), but it is not easy to do so (it takes some explaining to banks that the law permits them to accept you whilst you are at Precaria status). Pre-precaria, which is where you are at, you can't. So they have set you an impossible task. Thirty days is also pretty unreasonable. They are also asking you to deposit money as if you were approved, but you are not. And may not be (if for example, they don't like the FBI certificate). The way they have worded the income requirements (the bit about 60 days) is also quite obscure, and even if it were a reasonable/possible request would need clarification.

This sort of thing is quite typical. Long months without movement on the file, then, out of nowhere, nonsensical intimaciones. The staff are incompetent, unmotivated, poorly paid, get confused, and leave you nowhere to go. It happened to me, and once it got to extremes like you are reporting here, I resorted to a lawyer to get them to see sense. Heading into the long, languid summer, when things get even worse down there, that is your best bet now. It's worth trying. Don't give up.

 

[kai420]

They clearly aren't coping with the new rules. It is legally possible to open a bank account here with a Precaria (which is pre-DNI), but it is not easy to do so (it takes some explaining to banks that the law permits them to accept you whilst you are at Precaria status). Pre-precaria, which is where you are at, you can't. So they have set you an impossible task. Thirty days is also pretty unreasonable. They are also asking you to deposit money as if you were approved, but you are not. And may not be (if for example, they don't like the FBI certificate). The way they have worded the income requirements (the bit about 60 days) is also quite obscure, and even if it were a reasonable/possible request would need clarification.

This sort of thing is quite typical. Long months without movement on the file, then, out of nowhere, nonsensical intimaciones. The staff are incompetent, unmotivated, poorly paid, get confused, and leave you nowhere to go. It happened to me, and once it got to extremes like you are reporting here, I resorted to a lawyer to get them to see sense. Heading into the long, languid summer, when things get even worse down there, that is your best bet now. It's worth trying. Don't give up.

Now that they apparently canceled my precaria, which was valid until 10 January 2024, any idea what the exit fine will be? I hope to depart on or before 10 January, but I am awaiting a permanent replacement passport, as the passport used for the precaria was lost.

I last entered the country on 15 June and had a valid precaria from 14 August until today, 27 November, although I still have the document that says until 10 January.

I imagine it will be a pain in the ass when I leave the country, especially since I will have a new passport that has never been scanned into the country, as well as my three precarias under the old passport number.

I do have my police report from August reporting the passport as lost.

Anyone have any insights?