Preparing to go to colonia for 7th time! Eek!!

[MizzMarr]

Right but don't keep going to the same place the same way... its like running bc bud out of Canada... you never go to the same crossing in the same 6 months ever!!! not that i know anything about this, or you take a boat for a day trip to victoria vs crossing in the car...

jeeze are you guys drinking the water here or what?

Why are you worried you are an american citizen pay the 140 at eze get the visa on page 24 and come and go as you want... for 10 yrs!!!

I noticed leaving AEP that the visa was the only thing she looked at and it was because she told me she had never seen one yet! and my entry stamp was from EZE...

use AEP they have 2 intl gates... or go to Santiago those flights are dirt cheap too... the ferry is expensive and way overused by way too many expats and brits and Canadians doing this...

its not rocket science, its Argentina!

Zack, this is not BC and we're not running bud (good tip tho). Yes this is Argentina, but I'm afraid that you don't know what you are talking about. Many of us have lived here for years, myself included. The police now have DEPORTATION powers granted as of September, and they have changed and begun enforcing new immigration laws as recently as the beginning of 2010. These changes in particular pertain to people who have stayed more than 180 days in the country within a year. Immigrations officials have started giving "last stamps" aka "ultima prorrogas" to individuals in increments of 10, 30, and 90 days. Once your passport has been flagged you will not so easily be let in, if at all. This presents a very real threat to those whose lives are established here.

A lot of it depends on your luck of the draw with agents. Many have been and continue to get lucky. I'd suggest that you read the other threads discussing immigrations before contributing to the conversation. Unfortunately at this point if someone took your advice they might end up paying dearly for it. As Steve mentioned paying the $140 at EZE doesn't give you a visa, it's a reciprocicty tax that is unrelated to your visa. Of my many different crossings at various points along the Uruguay/Argentina border the only difference is the number alongside the edge of my stamps--it doesn't matter where you cross, but how many times and for how long you have been here. The penalty depends on the officials and their experience/mood that make the biggest difference. I agree that seven times in Colonia might be excessive, but really it's a moot point. How "believable" your trips to Montevideo are is irrelevant considering the only concern here is how many days of the year you have spent in Argentina. Of course nobody blinked an eye at you, as you've only just arrived.

Your advice is at best misinformed, and at worst potentially dangerous.

 

[MikeB12]

As long as you only stay in Argentina for no more than the 180 days every year would there be any problem?

 

[dennisr]

And do not forget the Arizona connection, give new meaning to RECIPROCITY. It could get ugly. Like the man said, what goes around, comes around.

"Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Nine Latin American countries including Brazil and Argentina asked a U.S. judge to join Mexico in its support of a court ruling blocking key provisions of an Arizona law requiring police to determine the immigration status of people stopped for questioning."


http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...urt-to-join-mexico-to-oppose-arizona-law.html

 

[Zackdotcom]

The ten year visa fee applies to the tourist visa which is good for 90 days and may be renewed once (in a 12 month period) at migraciones. It does not confer residency.

Being an "American citizen" in Argentina doesn't confer any special rights. It only entails the obligation to pay the fee.

Argentina has the right to determine who can stay and who must go...just like every other country I can think of, including the USA.

I agree being an "American Citizen" does not confer any special rights, but we are looked at as a boost to the economy and thus i am sure when push comes to shove they look thee other way because the passport is blue and not blood red or burnt magenta!

According to my lawyer in the USA whose wife is also a dual Argentine citizen, as long as i have viable business outside Argentina even if it is still in SA as a US citizen I can come and go as i please as long as my criminal record stays clean, and i have paid the reciprocity fee as many times as i need to in a calendar year, it is up to the re entry agent to stamp tourist 90 days on my passport, if they do not i can re enter but the last tourist 90 days stamp is still valid!!!

He knows of no instance where a US citizen has been denied entry to Argentina after leaving for viable business such as tourism in a foreign country, or a legitimate business meeting outside Argentina. He does know of many US citizens that have been deported for allowing their tourist visas to expire and then try to fix the problem and give their real address where they can be served papers.

Where is this language that the reciprocity fee applies to the rules and regulations of the tourist visa stamp? And may only be renewed once over a 12 month period? The Reciprocity fee and 10 yr receipt is only given in the lines at eze from direct flights originating in the USA... So If you fly through Montevideo then come in through AEP you can save the money and avoid payment. But when you leave if so through EZE they will bust you then, this is also according to my attorney back home.

Be glad we are not canucks its 70 usd per trip! ugghh

In regards to owning a 10 yr receipt from migration... see my receipt does not say what it is...its not a tourist or resident visa it is a proof of reciprocity, that's about it and according to my lawyer unless it came with legal documentation for which i signed and agreed to all it is is a receipt for entry... And I got zero documentation other than we don't take marked bills for the fee... I paid cash I signed nothing...

Look guys you can keep taking the slow boat to china with everyone else but when they decide to start denying re -entry i'll bet a bank roll it's there and through the Colonia Express records, and they will prove how many times you go back and forth in accordance with your immigration records.

I mean really between them and Buquebus couldn't Argentina charge them with conspiring to defraud the government by knowingly and continually selling tickets to all of you to if your comment about only renewing once per 12 months is true...?

 

[steveinbsas]

I'm not as certain as you that all the 'permatourists' are the targets of this one however... They are a pretty inoffensive lot in general... I don't see the angle.

If it is to drive them to the rentista for a cash grab... JMO... but Why implement stringent changes at the same time that would actually have the opposite effect? Those new changes would (on the surface) seem to me to actually drive more people to become permatouristas not the other way round. This leads me to believe like 'Bajo' said that it is most likely a specific 'element' of the permatourists...

Until the 'hidden agenda' becomes clear over time it is impossible to predict enforcement patterns...

The specific element of the permatourists that is the target of Argentine migraciones is the simple fact that they have been living in Argentina in defiance of the immigration laws.

Fees for resident visas and fines for the tourist visa overstay have increased at least threefold in the past couple years and the income requirement for the visa rentista and investor visa recently increased by an almost equal percentage.

I don't think migraciones is trying to drive the perma-tourists to another type of visa. They are just saying that if you don't qualify for residency you can't stay as long as you want.

 

[Zackdotcom]

Zack, this is not BC and we're not running bud (good tip tho). Yes this is Argentina, but I'm afraid that you don't know what you are talking about. Many of us have lived here for years, myself included. The police now have DEPORTATION powers granted as of September, and they have changed and begun enforcing new immigration laws as recently as the beginning of 2010. These changes in particular pertain to people who have stayed more than 180 days in the country within a year. Immigrations officials have started giving "last stamps" aka "ultima prorrogas" to individuals in increments of 10, 30, and 90 days. Once your passport has been flagged you will not so easily be let in, if at all. This presents a very real threat to those whose lives are established here.

A lot of it depends on your luck of the draw with agents. Many have been and continue to get lucky. I'd suggest that you read the other threads discussing immigrations before contributing to the conversation. Unfortunately at this point if someone took your advice they might end up paying dearly for it. As Steve mentioned paying the $140 at EZE doesn't give you a visa, it's a reciprocicty tax that is unrelated to your visa. Of my many different crossings at various points along the Uruguay/Argentina border the only difference is the number alongside the edge of my stamps--it doesn't matter where you cross, but how many times and for how long you have been here. The penalty depends on the officials and their experience/mood that make the biggest difference. I agree that seven times in Colonia might be excessive, but really it's a moot point. How "believable" your trips to Montevideo are is irrelevant considering the only concern here is how many days of the year you have spent in Argentina. Of course nobody blinked an eye at you, as you've only just arrived.

Your advice is at best misinformed, and at worst potentially dangerous.

But I decided to come here after careful evaluation, thousands of dollars in legal advice and fees, from 2 different attorneys who have ties here in BA and good Government ties... I never took into account your sites advice on immigration or government laws, more so just to see where people live and what they do here, hence my post history.

Your ( the sites ) posts are informative but tend to go both ways... some are very informative and backed up with links, most of which are now dead or useless due to their age... and others are speculation and hersay.

The law reads according the the State Department "you can not leave Argentina on the same passport after 180 days in the country", even the US Embassy says that, but they neglect to say is that is it consecutive, in a 12 month period or what the time frame of how the 180 days operate

As with everything here there are loopholes...

And according to your passport if correct you just arrived as well... mine just have stamps from other country's than URUGUAY via a boat.

Don't you think clearing Argentine Immigration (re entry) in URUGUAY at their airport leaves less chance for them to deny you access since URU has already released you to them literally across the desk! And if they do, then fly to Chile or home from MV but at least you are not stuck on a boat in a dock. You have choices at least... Boats back, a flight to Houston, etc etc...

Good luck to you guys and gals, you do things your way I'll do them mine!

See you in Montevideo!

 

[steveinbsas]

According to my lawyer in the USA whose wife is also a dual Argentine citizen, as long as i have viable business outside Argentina even if it is still in SA as a US citizen I can come and go as i please as long as my criminal record stays clean, and i have paid the reciprocity fee as many times as i need to in a calendar year, it is up to the re entry agent to stamp tourist 90 days on my passport, if they do not i can re enter but the last tourist 90 days stamp is still valid!!!

Is your lawyer in the USA really an expert on Argentine immigration law? For starters, you only need to pay the reciprocity fee once every ten years. Having a business outside Argentina does not qualify you for legal residency (more than 180 days per year) in Argentina. Non salaried income from a business may be used to qualify for a visa rentista and once you have one you can come and go whenever you please or stay all year long.

Yes, you can leave and reenter if your last stamp is still valid. In the future they might not give you 90 more days if you have already been in the country for 180, but if you are coming and going from EZE that is less likely to happen. They do treat clearly identifiable business travelers with more "respect" than the permatourists who have been making repeat day trips to Colonia.

Where is this language that the reciprocity fee applies to the rules and regulations of the tourist visa stamp? And may only be renewed once over a 12 month period? The Reciprocity fee and 10 yr receipt is only given in the lines at eze from direct flights originating in the USA... So If you fly through Montevideo then come in through AEP you can save the money and avoid payment. But when you leave if so through EZE they will bust you then, this is also according to my attorney back home.

I said the tourist visa (visa transitoria) is good for 90 days and may be renewed once at migraciones (without leaving the country). It doesn't matter what country you're from and the reciprocity fee itself has nothing to do with the conditions of the 90 day visa.

My connection is slow tonight. Perhaps you can read more here:

http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesible/?categorias

 

[steveinbsas]

But I decided to come here after careful evaluation, thousands of dollars in legal advice and fees, from 2 different attorneys who have ties here in BA and good Government ties... I never took into account your sites advice on immigration or government laws, more so just to see where people live and what they do here, hence my post history.

Your ( the sites ) posts are informative but tend to go both ways... some are very informative and backed up with links, most of which are now dead or useless due to their age... and others are speculation and hersay.

The law reads according the the State Department "you can not leave Argentina on the same passport after 180 days in the country", even the US Embassy says that, but they neglect to say is that is it consecutive, in a 12 month period or what the time frame of how the 180 days operate

As with everything here there are loopholes...

And according to your passport if correct you just arrived as well... mine just have stamps from other country's than URUGUAY via a boat.

Don't you think clearing Argentine Immigration (re entry) in URUGUAY at their airport leaves less chance for them to deny you access since URU has already released you to them literally across the desk! And if they do, then fly to Chile or home from MV but at least you are not stuck on a boat in a dock. You have choices at least... Boats back, a flight to Houston, etc etc...

Good luck to you guys and gals, you do things your way I'll do them mine!

See you in Montevideo!

You paid thousands of dollars in legal advice? Didn't one of your lawyers at least suggest you apply for temporary (year round) residency? You don't need an attorney to get a resident visa in Argentina.

Even if you have an attorney with good "government ties" it won't make much difference with the folks at migraciones. It might shorten the wait a little if he is known to the folks at migraciones and they like him. If you qualify for a resident visa it isn't very difficult to get one and an attorney certainly isn't required.

Anything your lawyers told you may become obsolete very quickly if there is a new decreto to migraciones from the President of Argentina. When did you arrive? The new decreto took effect in September, but as we can see from this thread, we don't yet know for sure how strictly it will be enforced.

If the State Department is correct, as you quoted, when they say that "you can not leave Argentina on the same passport after 180 days in the country", just what passport do they suggest using when you leave? Did you bring two?

 

[CanuckleHead]

The specific element of the permatourists that is the target of Argentine migraciones is the simple fact that they have been living in Argentina in defiance of the immigration laws.

Fees for resident visas and fines for the tourist visa overstay have increased at least threefold in the past couple years and the income requirement for the visa rentista and investor visa recently increased by an almost equal percentage.

I don't think migraciones is trying to drive the perma-tourists to another type of visa. They are just saying that if you don't qualify for residency you can't stay as long as you want.

but that begs the question... Why implement all of that and then maintain a haphazard (at best) or more likely a completely random policy of enforcement? Worse... why enable the permatourist by having a fine for 'overstaying'? Doesn't that 'fine's' mere existence... and the fact it is not crippling demonstrate a level of tolerance for the 'permatourist'? Why say you cannot stay for more than 180 days and then allow them to do exactly that just by paying a small fine when they leave. Put quite simply... permatourists are just not that hard to get rid of.

I don't see anyone demonstrating in the street to eliminate this 'criminal element' and truthfully why would they? For the most part they are harmless and are only guilty of falling in love with the country/a girl/boy or asado... and end up paying 2x what a local does in rent for the same apartment...

Just thinking out loud... I guess I'm just wondering 'why now?'... First thing you learn in Argentina whether you are here 10 mins or 10 years is there is always an angle.

 

[starlucia]

Are there any risks associated with sailing out of Argentina on day 179 of your 180-day limit? I've never overstayed my 90-day visa (by either going home to the U.S. or to Colonia), but on my next date of departure, I will have been in Argentina for 185 days in one year. I plan to trim this down to 179 or so by traveling around Chile and Uruguay over the holidays, but just wondering if I could be in for any sort of spanking at Ezeiza when they see how close I am to the annual limit.