Rentista visa and some other questions

[UraniumFever]

You can apply (with the help of an attorney who knows what he's doing) for Argentine citizenship soon after your arrival.This way. if you overstay your tourist permit, you will be protected from deportation.

According th Bajo_Cero2, the Spanih language requiremnt has been eliminated or at the least is not being enforced now by most (if not all judges),

Either way, you will have sufficient time to learn the language while waiting for your citizenship (unless you always hang out with other expats and only speak English, thereby seriously retarding your ability to learn Spanish).

I lived in Capital Federal for four years, but I did not really begin to learn Spanish until I went full immersion and moved to an area where there are no expats who speak English and very few of the natives do, either.

I can say without any doubt whatsoever that my life in Argentina has become infinitely richer as my ability to speak Spanish has improved.

And I am happy to be surrounded by like minded people who ae prepared to continue living their lives as close to normal as possible WTSHTF.

I see that you are also the type to expect that SHTF soon...I am too.

I hate hanging with expats and wherever I go, mostly just want to be friends with the natives. I learn languages really quickly (fluent in Russian in 2.5 years) so that woun't be an issue

How does that work: Applying for citizenship immediately after entering the country? That sounds really weird in terms of laws...

 

[steveinbsas]

I see that you are also the type to expect that SHTF soon...I am too.

Then I hope you get out of Russia ASAP!!

How does that work: Applying for citizenship immediately after entering the country? That sounds really weird in terms of laws...

Yes, it does. I suggest you contact Bajo_Cero2 (aka Dr, Christian Rubliar).

He is an attorney who specializes in this procedure and is the only one I know of who has successfully acomplished it.

If you get temporary residency (which I hope you can), you can wait two years before starting the process without paying a lawyer.

If you can't get temporary residency and you can afford to pay the attorney's fees, I suggest you start the citizenship process as soon after your arrival as you can, certainly before a 90 day extension of your 90 day tourist visa expires.

 

[UraniumFever]

Then I hope you get out of Russia ASAP!!


Yes, it does. I suggest you contact Bajo_Cero2 (aka Dr, Christian Rubliar).

He is an attorney who specializes in this procedure and is the only one I know of who has successfully acomplished it.

If you get temporary residency (which I hope you can), you can wait two years before starting the process without paying a lawyer.

If you can't get temporary residency and you can afford to pay the attorney's fees, I suggest you start the citizenship process as soon after your arrival as you can, certainly before a 90 day extension of your 90 day tourist visa expires.

I would absolutely have the money to do that. Especially if it means getting a new passport.

I'll have to send him a message. You mean he was able to get citizenship in less than 2 years?

 

[steveinbsas]

I would absolutely have the money to do that. Especially if it means getting a new passport.

It also means you have no problems living in Argentina without temporaty or permanant residency, though permanent residents apparently can travel to some other Mercorsur countres with only the DNI and without a passport from any other country

You mean he was able to get citizenship in less than 2 years?

No, it means that (with a lawyer who knows how to do it) you can apply for citizenship before you have the two years of required residency (physical presence) in Argentina, but the two year requiremet will still exist and the final decision (aka sentence) by the judge might not occur until some time after that, but I have no idea how many weeks or months it could be.

PS: The lawyer will be able to press the case forward in ways you or I never could.

 

[UraniumFever]

You will need to "prove" to migrationes satisfaction that you are receiving the level of income they currently require.

Income must be passive and stable (from investments, real estate, or a trust).

Any document you provide (execpt your passport) must have the Apostille and, as far as I know, the Apostille can be made for any document that has a signature that has been notarized. Bank statements cannot receive Apostille, but any document with a notarized signature can be Apostilled.

I provided migrations with US bank statements with a cover letter signed by a bank official. The letter confirmed that the origin of the deposits was an irrecoverable trust. I also asked the attorney who created the trust to write a letter explaining that the income would continue for the rest of my life. I attached a copy of the trust to the letter.

Both letters were signed and notarized and (with their supporting documents) received the Apostille. I had them translated into Spanish in Argentina by an approved translator before presenting them to migracioes Everything was accepted exactly as presented.

The trust which generated my passive monthly income had already been in force for five years prior to my applying fot temporary residency in Argentina, so migracioes had no questions or doubts about the source of my income.

PS: You will not be able to open an Argentine bank account until after you receive temporary residency (the visa rentista), so you will not be able to make any deposits in an Argentine bank account before your visa is granted.

If you want to move to a country that will give you permision to live year round based on just having money in a foregin bank, I suggest Mexico.

One thing I'm not understanding is does every single page of a document need to have an apostille on it? If so, can a notarized cover letter allow the whole document to be apostilled? Let's say, for example, I wrote a letter explaining the situation and used a jurat (a sworn statement under oath in front of a notary that amounts to perjury if untrue, at least that's how I understood it) and attached it to all the supporting documents, would all of the documents under that also be apostilled then, or does every single page of a document have to be notarized in order to be apostilled?

If not every document is apostilled, I.E the cover letter is notarized and apostilled and the documents underneath are not, but are translated into Spanish by a certified translator, will those documents also be taken into consideration or are they worthless?

I'm considering getting into contact with the law firm who litigated the case for us to see if they have the files or to see if they'd be willing to certify all of this information in a letter, but because of the damn age of the case, I don't know if it will be possible.

I faxed a request to the insurance company and they sent me 96 pages of documents from my settlement. One of those documents is a notarized copy of the settlement, but because its a copy of the notarized document, it seems impossible to apostille it, and it is simply not possible to get the originals and going through the court isn't even possible because the settlement was sealed, so they don't have these records.

 

[Alby]

I have been watching this thread with some amusement for a couple of days. It is time to chime in. In answer to your question, the apostille is applied to each separate document, not to each page of that document.

Some people on this website who went down the Rentista route in years gone by will tell you that it is quite straightforward. Their opinions are out of date.

By all means, pursue the rentista route if you have no other option, but be aware that your case will be almost impossible for the migration authority here to understand and assess. They won't know what to do with it; your file will sit on someone's desk, repeatedly put to the bottom of the in-tray probably for several years.

However, as long as you can pull together all the documentation (which is extensive in your case), have it all apostilled (in the US I presume and notarized prior to the apostille--if that is what the US government requires in order for it to affix the apostille), then bring it here, have it all officially translated (except the bank statements showing the money going in), use an ATM to withdraw some money from the account into which the settlement monies are paid and then photograph the ATM receipt and then successfully load all of the foregoing documentation into the migration authority's electronic system, you will reach first base. And first base is the only one you need to reach. You will receive a precaria residency at that point and be free to live here and do certain things while they assess you claim for rentista residency. Long before they ever get round to assessing it, or rejecting it, or asking you for more information, you will have, by the separate process described above and in other threads on this website, attained citizenship.

 

[UraniumFever]

I have been watching this thread with some amusement for a couple of days. It is time to chime in. In answer to your question, the apostille is applied to each separate document, not to each page of that document.

Some people on this website who went down the Rentista route in years gone by will tell you that it is quite straightforward. Their opinions are out of date.

By all means, pursue the rentista route if you have no other option, but be aware that your case will be almost impossible for the migration authority here to understand and assess. They won't know what to do with it; your file will sit on someone's desk, repeatedly put to the bottom of the in-tray probably for several years.

However, as long as you can pull together all the documentation (which is extensive in your case), have it all apostilled (in the US I presume and notarized prior to the apostille--if that is what the US government requires in order for it to affix the apostille), then bring it here, have it all officially translated (except the bank statements showing the money going in), use an ATM to withdraw some money from the account into which the settlement monies are paid and then photograph the ATM receipt and then successfully load all of the foregoing documentation into the migration authority's electronic system, you will reach first base. And first base is the only one you need to reach. You will receive a precaria residency at that point and be free to live here and do certain things while they assess you claim for rentista residency. Long before they ever get round to assessing it, or rejecting it, or asking you for more information, you will have, by the separate process described above and in other threads on this website, attained citizenship.

Thank you as well for the answer!

So if I'm understanding this correctly: I add a notarized cover letter to the documents and have that whole document apostilled. I do this for every document: For example:

1. Notarized letter from the lawyer who did the settlement, attach it to the settlement, and get that whole document apostilled.
2. Notarized letter from the bank showing consistent deposits of the same amount of money for as long as I've had the account, get that apostilled and attach bank statements and the receipt as you stated above.
3. Notarized letter from me, stating the whole situation and why it is so complicated and attach that to the letter from the insurance company stating the annuity amount and that it's issued for life, get that apostilled.

Then get it all translated by a certified Argentinian translator, gather all the other required documents, go to a lawyer and that's it, I'll either get approved for the visa or be in limbo long enough to get citizenship?

 

[Alby]

Based on my experience, what you propose actually looks quite good. But, in the future, looking back, it may strike you as naive and ridiculous.

At this point, particularly given you have no Spanish, you need to engage a specialist English-speaking Argentine immigration lawyer. The lawyer will tell you exactly what documentation (providing precisely what information) in your complicated case you need to bring physically with you to Argentina to translate and then upload (or have the lawyer upload) in order to get to first base. Such a lawyer may also be able to suggest an alternative path (such as--as Steve has suggested--applying directly for the pensionista residency) and would also, presumably, help you work through the citizenship route, either in its own right or in combination with the rentista or pensionista route.

You are not going to get through the minefield you are setting out on by trying to work it out for yourself based on answers you get on this or similar websites. Find a lawyer. Do nothing else but find a lawyer. Forget steps 1-3. You need a lawyer to tell you what steps 1-3 (or more likely steps 1-23) are.

Failing that, my advice would be to try one of the other countries you mentioned. If you poke around other threads on this website you will come across adjectives such as Kafkaesque and Dickensian to describe Argentina's migration authority. Those descriptions are spot on. You will have encountered nothing like it, anywhere, not even in Russia. Other countries in the region do it much better. For example, I obtained temporary residency in Peru some years ago from the migration authority there (under a different category), and it was a breeze in comparison.

 

[UraniumFever]

Based on my experience, what you propose actually looks quite good. But, in the future, looking back, it may strike you as naive and ridiculous. At this point, you need to engage a specialist Argentine immigration lawyer. You are not going to get through the minefield you are setting out on by trying to work it out for yourself based on answers you get on this or similar websites.

Frankly, my advice would be to try one of the other countries you mentioned. If you poke around other threads on this website you will come across adjectives such as Kafkaesque and Dickensian to describe Argentina's migration authority. Those descriptions are spot on. You will have encountered nothing like it, anywhere, not even in Russia. Other countries in the region do it much better. For example, I obtained temporary residency in Peru some years ago from the Migration authority there (under a different category), and it was a breeze in comparison.

I have no plans to do it by myself) I would 100% hire a lawyer. But before I pay for a consultation with a lawyer, I'm just trying to check if this is even a remote possibility. If it is, then I'm 100% willing to hire a lawyer for a consultation.

Peru is 100% my other choice. One reason I'd like Argentina is the ability, after obtaining citizenship, to live in Peru just with my passport because of MERCOSUR.

 

[UraniumFever]

Okay, so I'm looking at the website of Bajo_Cero_2...these Argentinian laws are so hard to understand. One thing that is written there is that for the rentista visa, there has to be $2000 a month in income, which I don't actually meet. is this still true or is there wiggle room?

I guess I'll go ahead and write him.