Argentina isn't the cheapest

[Rich One]

Allow me to point out one more issue with dollarisation - the need for change.

If the economy is going to run on dollars, there will be a huge need for small bills - 1, 5, 10, 20 dollar bills, and the coins. HDP, the tens of tons of dimes and quarters that will be needed, if not hundreds of tons. On top of the 30-50 billion USD needed for the rest of the process, consider how many billions worth of small bills & coins will be needed if this is going to actually work. Consider both the monetary value and the weight and volume. I know the Milei supporters will try to handwave this aside, but the logistical considerations are enormous.

When the EU adopted the EURO , the same situation arrived so many countries rounded up prices to 1 Euro..! i.e. everything under 700 pesos One Dollar...LOL

 

[Lanick]

Argentina absolutely not the cheapest or even cheap. Argentina is INEXPENSIVE!! Quality for much less. Great fine dining for a fraction of what it’d cost in the US or in Europe. World class tennis coaches, golf courses, equestrian, hobbies, arts & culture, medical care all available for much less!! If you just want to exist and spend less, then Argentina may not be the place for you. But if you wish to maintain same standards as you do or even better standards for less $$$ then Argentina is paradise!

 

[Redpossum]

When the EU adopted the EURO , the same situation arrived so many countries rounded up prices to 1 Euro..! i.e. everything under 700 pesos One Dollar...LOL

To those on the upper rungs of the socio-economic ladder, this sounds fine, no doubt. But for those on the lower reaches of that allegorical ladder, including seniors, this could be very, very hard.

Also, I quite frankly don't give a damn how they do it in Europe. If anything, I would take Europe as a negative example. And Borrell can stuff his "garden" right up his fourth point of contact.

 

[earlyretirement]

Argentina absolutely not the cheapest or even cheap. Argentina is INEXPENSIVE!! Quality for much less. Great fine dining for a fraction of what it’d cost in the US or in Europe. World class tennis coaches, golf courses, equestrian, hobbies, arts & culture, medical care all available for much less!! If you just want to exist and spend less, then Argentina may not be the place for you. But if you wish to maintain same standards as you do or even better standards for less $$$ then Argentina is paradise!

This is totally correct. I don't get some of the arguments or disagreements on this board. When comparing cost of retirement in USA and first world countries vs. Argentina there is NO comparison. It's pretty darn inexpensive. Yeah, I get what some ex-pats are trying to say about finding X country that is EVEN cheaper. Sure, that's fine and dandy but at what cost???

I've been all around the world to cheap places and expensive places. There is a value proposition you have to ask yourself in each place you are at. Typically if it's CRAZY cheap you're giving something up in your value prop. Probably horrible weather, horrible crime, difficult to assimilate, in the middle of no where, etc.

Argentina is pretty close to a first world standard of living. I know NO OTHER city that is safe, really great quality of life, decent weather, beautiful city, great restaurants, cultural events and concerts by A players.

To those on the upper rungs of the socio-economic ladder, this sounds fine, no doubt. But for those on the lower reaches of that allegorical ladder, including seniors, this could be very, very hard.

Also, I quite frankly don't give a damn how they do it in Europe. If anything, I would take Europe as a negative example. And Borrell can stuff his "garden" right up his fourth point of contact.

I disagree with you about needing to be on the "upper rungs of the socio-economic ladder". That's kind of BS. IF you have a place to stay. See, my mother in law was retired. She only made pension of about $800 US per month. She had a pain off place so she had NO rent to pay. Her HOA monthly expenses was something. like $100 US. Food she spent very little and didn't dine out much. Utilities are almost nothing. She had some healthcare plan that was cheap. Maybe it was the free universal one. She got along fine on her $800 US per month. Could she go on trips abroad or travel? Nope, not unless I subsidized it which I did. But she perfectly subsisted in Recoleta on that meager pension.

I always say you MUST be a property owner in Buenos Aires as an ex-pat being retired and plan to live there long-term. If you bought a small place (her place she bought for $75,000 US) so we're not talking about huge savings. But you don't need a lot of money to live in Argentina if you have a paid off place.

That's the key.

 

[Rich One]

Rate from 1 to 10 all the items below for Buenos Aires v/s other cities. BA comes always on top for me (I speak Spanish) . Give it a Try . My rating for Thailand would be perhaps a Total of 40- For me Argentina rates above Portugal or Malta.

Buenos Aires Rating /My choices /Try yours

1. Language 10
2. Culture 8
3. Cosmopolitan city 8
4. Health system 8
5. Connectivity 8
6. Weather 8
7. School system 8
8. Ethnicity 9
9. Migration Policies 9
10. Cost of Living 10
11. Total 85

 

[earlyretirement]

Rate from 1 to 10 all the items below for Buenos Aires v/s other cities. BA comes always on top for me (I speak Spanish) . Give it a Try . My rating for Thailand would be perhaps a Total of 40-

Buenos Aires Rating /My choices /Try yours

1. Language 10
2. Culture 8
3. Cosmopolitan city 9
4. Health system 10
5. Connectivity 9
6. Weather 8
7. School system 8
8. Ethnicity 8
9. Migration Policies 9
10. Cost of Living 10
11. Total 85

Mine comes to 85 so the same but I have a few different numbers. A few things are different for me. I think the healthcare system is EXCELLENT. I'm not sure what experience you've had but I've had several things but I wanted to expand about the healthcare and why I rate it as a 10. I'll point out below.

Healthcare experiences:

1) I had 2 children born in Buenos Aires. The first at Sanatoria de La Trinidad in Palermo Chico and the other was born at Sanatorio los Arcos in Palermo Hollywood. We also had a child born in San Diego and I can tell you the experience was MUCH better in Buenos Aires. From the clinical care, to the medical facilities, to the staff. In the USA it's a revolving door and they really are horrible. You're just a #'d patient in a database. NOT a person. In Argentina you're a real person.

2) I suffer from really bad migraines. I have all my life. In the USA they would never want to do any studies without first going to the gatekeeper (primary care physician). They won't do any expensive stuff without trying and trying and trying. Well, my first migraine in Buenos Aires I was on the OSDE 510 plan. I'm not sure if they still have that plan. But I was paying next to nothing to cover me and my family. I complained and within 24 hours they had me doing an MRI! You would NEVER see that in the USA.

* I do want to qualify this and say that my office manager at the time, Mariela, her father was the Director of Sanatoria de La Trinidad. That probably didn't hurt but I honestly believed I'd still get the same care even if she didn't make a phone call to her dad. But I will admit, that when we had a baby, they actually kicked someone out of the VIP room that we got for my wife and I that had a sofa bed. There was literally someone in it that was recovering from I'm not sure and they moved them to another room so we could take the room after we were born. I realize THAT was a result of my office manager's father making a phone call. We got the VIP treatment all the way when we had our first baby.

And also the guy was a very prominent guy. Cristina Kirchner was the President of Argentina at the time and she asked my office manager's dad to be the Secretary of Health for Argentina but he turned it down as he was making too much money running the private hospital. (smart man).

3) Our kids were very healthy but when we had to take them to the pediatrician for when they got sick, it was nothing short of extraordinary how wonderful the doctors are. They ALL gave us their personal Cellphone # to call them with ANYTHING we needed. I don't think that was special to us. They really do care in Argentina vs. the USA where the healthcare system is broken. I doubt you will EVER see a doctor giving you their personal cellphone # in the USA. That would be their worst nightmare.

4) When I started suffering with my extreme pain for my small fiber nerve damage and burning in my feet. I couldn't find anyone good to deal with my pain. People were charging $300 US per hour and they wouldn't take insurance. And keep in mind I have the best coverage in the USA and paying $2,700 US dollar per month for coverage to cover my, my wife and my 3 kids. That's obscene in and of itself. In Argentina the same coverage would cost about $500 US.

My therapist - Susana Olañeta - https://bacounseling.com.ar only charges $25 US per session and is amazing!! I recommended friends from the USA that were previously paying $300 per session and they said it was much better.

5) My mother in law lived in Buenos Aires for 15 years and she has had heart issues. She is on the free healthcare there and gets treated by wonderful doctors. Sometimes I pay to have her go to specialists for various things but most cnosultations are dirt cheap mostly under $40 US. Do you want to know what I spent in the USA one time when she had an epidode? THOUSANDS of dollars.

Healthcare in Argentina is 10 out of 10.

 

[sergio]

To those on the upper rungs of the socio-economic ladder, this sounds fine, no doubt. But for those on the lower reaches of that allegorical ladder, including seniors, this could be very, very hard.

Also, I quite frankly don't give a damn how they do it in Europe. If anything, I would take Europe as a negative example. And Borrell can stuff his "garden" right up his fourth point of contact.

 

[FrankPintor]

When the EU adopted the EURO , the same situation arrived so many countries rounded up prices to 1 Euro..! i.e. everything under 700 pesos One Dollar...LOL

It's worse than that. When the Euro arrived, prices jumped like you say, but after that one-off event there was no inflationary tendency, since small denomination Euro coins were available, and exact prices could be set, paid, and exact change given.

When you dollarize, those small-denomination coins don't exist, just fragile, short-lived Dollar bills. So after a few months nobody has change, and prices are rounded up to the nearest 5 or 10 Dollars. This is my experience with both Ecuador (formal) and Venezuela (informal) dollarization. It will not be different here. Oh, and to make it even worse, official inflation won't catch this, since it measures the published prices, not the rounded-up prices. It's a lose-lose proposition.

 

[earlyretirement]

It's worse than that. When the Euro arrived, prices jumped like you say, but after that one-off event there was no inflationary tendency, since small denomination Euro coins were available, and exact prices could be set, paid, and exact change given.

When you dollarize, those small-denomination coins don't exist, just fragile, short-lived Dollar bills. So after a few months nobody has change, and prices are rounded up to the nearest 5 or 10 Dollars. This is my experience with both Ecuador (formal) and Venezuela (informal) dollarization. It will not be different here. Oh, and to make it even worse, official inflation won't catch this, since it measures the published prices, not the rounded-up prices. It's a lose-lose proposition.

That's really interesting Frank. That's for pointing this out. Did you live in Ecuador during this time of transition? What do you think it would have done if they didn't dollarize? Better or worse? Thanks for your intelligent thoughts.

 

[Big Swifty]

I stopped reading after two and half pages and after I saw it mentioned by someone here whose posts I find wise who suggested that it's all relative, depends on how you live, what you're buying and how often you make those purchases, and another person who posted a link to the Numbeo Cost of Living Comparison by City tool.

Years ago a global backpacker whose style and standard of living is constant no matter what country he happens to be in told he judges how expensive a country is by the price of a bottle of Coca-Cola since it's a standard product available just about anywhere in the world. You don't even need to drink it to be able to use the Coca-Cola Index.