Blacks in BA ?

[Hockey_Nut]

I red somewhere that every single day about 1,5 - 2 persons arrive in BA by sea illegally and probally many more by air. The way forward seems to work as a street vendor, propper or whatever else that pays you something. Then finding a girl to marry you, getting your residence and finding a legal job.

I don´t think it´s hard to believe because there are always more Africans selling stuff on the streets

 

[Vikingo]

The most complete survey of the objective, academic work on this area can be found at http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/asolomi/images/Afro-ArgReview.pdf

An interesting statistic from this survey: "In 1869, the proportion of the national population who were of African origin was registered as 26.1%; in 1895, it was 1.8%"'.


This means that from over twice the population of blacks in the present USA, there was a massive change to almost negligible. There is no "documentary evidence", but the obvious answer is staring us in the face. In a country where INDEC can say the the present inflation rate is only 1 to 3 %, when we know from being here that it is at least 25%, we know that it is easy to hide the truth. There was a concerted and public action to annilihate the black Argentineans in the late 18th Century. There wer no significant wars from 1870 on (Argentina's only significant war from Independence to the Falklands War was the War of the Triple Alliance in which mainly Paraguayans died and which was bascally over by 1869).

Obviously the only logical conclusion is that all-out genocide was started by President Sarmiento (called "the great educator" here for his public school programs) who hated blacks and feared that the blacks here would be encouraged to be assertive after the American Civil War. He wrote in his diary in 1848 during a visit to the USA after observing the complications that the slavery issue raised in the US at that pre-civil- war time, and that Argentina's solution would only be the death of the blacks. When he was President of Argentina in the 1870's, he allowed and encouraged the paramilitaries to do their worst in a way that the KKK (and the Nazis) could only dream of. Many Gaucho ballads from the 1870's and 1880's joyfully talk about killing blacks as sport practiced with impunity. One of the key passages of Martin Fierro, written in 1872 and considered the national book of Argentina, consists of two such encounters. That they may have been protected by the economy is irrelevant, the laws arenot even in force in Argentina now.

The excuses of war or disease or assimilation intothe general population or swamped by immigrants are completely laughable, they make no logical sense whatsoever. The Argentine education ststem has tried to eliminate Black history in Argentina. We know that as much as half of General San Martin's liberation army in the 1810's were black slaves, and that the celebrated Sargento Cabral who saved San Martin during a battle was black, but the history books here are silent on this point. The southern US states had fromal means of discrininating and eliminating blacks after the civil war, and they did obviously not come close to what Sarmiento and his cohorts did in the late 19th century.

This is just another example of studied ignorance that we see in Argentina every day.

I love Argentina, and I am not black, but it is amazing how truth has / is completely ignored and suppresed here.

I agree with you. How can it be that the faces of the 2 most genocides of the country (sarmiento and roca) are shown on the 100 and 50 bills.
The history that we have been taught is not the true one.
Try to find someone who knows that 65% of San Martin`s army were blacks. We owe our indepence to them.

It happens also with other national heroes like Castelli, Monteagudo, Moreno... they remain hidden by the authorities.
President Illia never took any cent from the public treasure nor he accepted any "coima" and he has been forgotten and marginalized as well.
This also the fault of the media which serves the interests of the few powerful people who control everything.

I spent all my time arguing with compatriots who discriminates the "negros" (though they call negros to brown people). They say they don`t want to work as though there were a lot of jobs in Argentina for people without formal education. There is also discrimination agaisnt left wing people "zurdos".

As long as we hide the truth and continue fighting each other we will be a 3rd world country. The cultural factor is more important than the economical.

 

[mrisley]

Most of the blacks were placed on the front lines in the wars. Only the old folks will tell you this. Today, there are lots of dominican women that 99% work as prostitutes. More than that, you see more from Kenya than from North America. I guess from the small amount of blacks in Argentina today, that is why it is considered good luck to be with a black.

 

[stevstef]

I would suggest you go to constitucion. Not the nicest area. But there are several barber shops and salons there that are Dominican which cater to our texture of hair.

Also stop in at one of the Dominicans restaurants. The food is great (with flavor) from the caribbean. Something you dont get here.

As for black people, There are barely any...and when you do find one the sad thing is they are normally prostitutes sent here by the mafia to work in the sex trade.

 

[alexios]

@winston:


My girlfriend is from here and she's told me some pretty ridiculous stories about the education she's received here. Like when her teacher in primary school handed out maps of Europe and asked everyone to color in the country that they are from. And how, for the most part, her history classes, from primary school through university, have focused either on how Argentina (and the rest of Latin America) has been shaped by its various relationships with Europe (colonization, immigration, trade, emulation, etc.) or on how the US is a big, terrible bully.

Argentina's modern culture is based in immigration form Europe, the major boom was during and after the WW 2 when the total population of Argentina was DOUBLED by european immigration. It makes a lot of sense to me, as an argentine with greek descent, to learn about how our culture was shaped. So if that teacher handed me that map I would certainly know what country to paint. If you don't recognize that just look around the large number of argentines holding european passports.
As for the US being a big terrible bully, most countries will agree on that, and if they don't teach it at school its at least on their minds.
Now don't try to tell me that argentines are racist and americans tolerant. Yes, diversity is strength and we don't have much in Argentina - I work in Los Angeles...so I know about diversity and I've seen more discrimination here than in Bs As (in Bs As is typically because of fear of being robbed or kidnapped, in LA they take it to a more personal level)
Look back a few decades ago, how was the situation with black people in the US before calling us racists.
Alexios

 

[Hockey_Nut]

I was surprised there were quite a few Africans in Santiago as well, not as many as in BA, but more then expected. Maybe they begin to see South America as a place to escape there poverty?

 

[Hockey_Nut]

Argentina's modern culture is based in immigration form Europe, the major boom was during and after the WW 2 when the total population of Argentina was DOUBLED by european immigration. It makes a lot of sense to me, as an argentine with greek descent, to learn about how our culture was shaped. So if that teacher handed me that map I would certainly know what country to paint. If you don't recognize that just look around the large number of argentines holding european passports.
As for the US being a big terrible bully, most countries will agree on that, and if they don't teach it at school its at least on their minds.
Now don't try to tell me that argentines are racist and americans tolerant. Yes, diversity is strength and we don't have much in Argentina - I work in Los Angeles...so I know about diversity and I've seen more discrimination here than in Bs As (in Bs As is typically because of fear of being robbed or kidnapped, in LA they take it to a more personal level)
Look back a few decades ago, how was the situation with black people in the US before calling us racists.
Alexios

Argentina was actually the second biggest immigrant country from the 1880´s untill the 1920´s and important immgrant country from the 20´s untill the late 60´s

Since then it has been an immigrant country as well but not from Europe

 

[ssr]

Argentina's modern culture is based in immigration form Europe, the major boom was during and after the WW 2 when the total population of Argentina was DOUBLED by european immigration. It makes a lot of sense to me, as an argentine with greek descent, to learn about how our culture was shaped. So if that teacher handed me that map I would certainly know what country to paint. If you don't recognize that just look around the large number of argentines holding european passports.
As for the US being a big terrible bully, most countries will agree on that, and if they don't teach it at school its at least on their minds.
Now don't try to tell me that argentines are racist and americans tolerant. Yes, diversity is strength and we don't have much in Argentina - I work in Los Angeles...so I know about diversity and I've seen more discrimination here than in Bs As (in Bs As is typically because of fear of being robbed or kidnapped, in LA they take it to a more personal level)
Look back a few decades ago, how was the situation with black people in the US before calling us racists.
Alexios

Hah! Well, there it is, then. Thanks for contributing, alexios. And, hey, you watch your back over there in LA, champ. Thankfully you don't have to worry about the not-of-European-descent robbing or kidnapping you there like you would down here Argentina, but, as you said, you might have to deal with plenty of folks who don't like you personally. Damn racists!

 

[ElQueso]

Now don't try to tell me that argentines are racist and americans tolerant. Yes, diversity is strength and we don't have much in Argentina - I work in Los Angeles...so I know about diversity and I've seen more discrimination here than in Bs As (in Bs As is typically because of fear of being robbed or kidnapped, in LA they take it to a more personal level)
Look back a few decades ago, how was the situation with black people in the US before calling us racists.
Alexios

I just have a comment to make on how tolerant Argentinos are related to other races or peoples.

My wife is Paraguayan. My sister-in-law is 14 and goes to a private school in Tortugitas. We live (renting) in a closed neighborhood in Garin, very close to Pilar.

When we were looking for a house, we were refused an offer we made on our favorite house. The real estate agent told me that from then on it would be wise if I went to look at houses myself and didn't bring my wife or her older sister. She didn't make any reference to that being the reason we were refused - supposedly the owner changed her mind and wanted to sell the house instead. A month later the house was still on the market as a rental.

The administrator of the barrio called the gate guards one day shortly after we moved in. We had three remises bring some of my wife's relatives and friends out to the house, most of whom were female. The guards came to my house and asked to see me. They asked me what was going on - was I running some kind of sex party???? Seems the administrator couldn't believe that more than a couple of Paraguayans together could be anyhting but prostitutes.

When we moved into the neighborhood here, my wife met a few of the maids in the neighborhood (who, coincidentally are Paraguayan). Our next door neighbor told her maid that she couldn't believe a family of Paraguayans were moving in next door (it's amazing what people will say to people of the same race they are denigrating, not realizing really that they are even saying anything wrong). She was certain that there were going to be robberies and an invasion of Paraguayans as a result.

When the neighbor found out the husband (me) was an estadounidense, she came over about a month later to invite my wife to a party she was having. Turns out, she sells purses and was inviting people over to show them. My wife bought two purses. The neighbor has since had other parties, not for showing off her wares, but people here in the neighborhood for parilla and what-not. My wife has not been invited. She has, however, since been invited to more purse shows. At least she's not prejudiced against money coming from Paraguayans.

In fact, although we often work outside in the yard, trying to make the place look nicer, I don't think anyone in the neighborhood has said more than two words to us. They are very standoffish and barely respond to our saludos.

My sister-in-law is routinely scorned and ridiculed in school for being a Paraguayan. She works her ass off, is one of the best students in her level. When the other Argentinos demand to copy her work (a very common request, and it is expected to be adhered to by those asking) and she refuses she is called all kinds of names, including "Paraguaya sucia" (dirty Paraguayan). They make fun of her accent and tell her that she lives in Argentina now, she has to talk like everyone else. Isn't she embarrassed to be talking like a Paraguayan?

My brother-in-law works and lives in town in construction. He is supposed to make about 1800 pesos a month (roughly 70 pesos a day). He's lucky if he gets 1200. The foreman, who is Argentino, makes all kinds of excuses as to why he can't be paid the full amount, but promises to make it up to him next month and yet never has. He and the other foreigners on the crew (there's only one Argentino, the rest are Paraguayan and Bolivian) are pretty much treated the same way. He is legal, by the way. But he's Paraguayan, and has a very low self-esteem, and won't fight back. He's terrified he'll be deported, or lose his job and be blacklisted.

So dude, I wouldn't say that the US is anywhere near where it needs to be on race relations (although it did manage to elect a black president!), but you can't even come close to holding up Argentina in general as a country "tolerant" to other peoples. In fact, I've lived in the southern US for most of my life, and I can guarantee that foreigners and black people are treated better as a whole and have more opportunities, and are better protected against those who DO treat foreigners and black people shitty. I come from Houston, which has an extremely large and diverse foreign and black population. We actually managed to live very well together. Maybe Los Angeles isn't the best example of race relations in the US today, but I wouldn't know, I've never lived there.

The fact is, every country/ethnic group has a bit of the fear of the foreign in them, for whatever reason. It seems to be a basic human emotion that people have to constantly fight against.

As far as the US being seen as a bully here - it's that, and more. "Las venas abiertas de America Latina" (remember the book that Chavez gave to Obama?) is required reading in my sister-in-law's school. Her history teacher often makes comments that the US is a very sinister country and is completely at fault for ALL that is wrong in Latin America. While I can't deny that the US does not always do very smart things and is guilty of some pretty stupid crap, people who blame the US for their woes never seem to get around to mentioning the corrupt governments, the rich landholders who continue to have sway, and the huge number of poor who are paid to vote one way and who are kept ignorant because it's easier to control an ignorant population.

Don't get me wrong - I love Argentina. I've lived here for three years, and traveled back and forth for a year before that. As an estadounidense I'm treated well (although I have been shouted out of a cafe before, things almost coming to blows, because I was't welcome in Argentina, according to one hot-head) and have a number of Argentino friends who are very gracious and wonderful people.

Argentina has a lot of good things going for it and could be a world-class economy if it could get past its misguided policies. But for people with their eyes open, it's not even close to being a paradise of brotherhood that many would have everyone think, particularly for the poor and those unfortunate to have been born in even poorer countries who came here to make a better life.

 

[fedecc]

The above post would make much more sense if argentina had militia groups shooting down ilegal inmigrants as they try to cross the border and the US, well....didn´t.