Fibertel: Internet Service License Revoked

[gouchobob]

Why are you so obsessed with me ? Labelling people as a regime supporter is a sign of a immature provincial person who cannot see the trees from the woods.

In every debate there are many sides and opinions and lets leave it at that.

I am not obsessed with you in particular, I just mentioned you as you have been a vocal and pretty much a down the line supporter of everything this government does or says. This has often-ed puzzled me as I know you are not from Argentina. I can understand the Argentinians that support the government because they may not know anything but this type of government. It boggles my mind that anybody exposed to real democracy and decent government like you had in Australia could come here and find anything he likes. Not that Australia or any government is prefect but in comparison Australia would seem perfection itself compared to here.

 

[gouchobob]

This is the level of debate I'm talking about. I consider every administration since the restoration of democracy here to have been worse than the K's. What do you know about what went on in this country during the times of Alfonsin, Menem, De la Rua? I recall pointing out just a few of the most obvious shortcomings of Alfonsin's presidency on this forum during the love fest that occurred here after his death and being laughed off by a couple of Argentines no less, who then went awfully quiet when I asked them to disprove the veracity of my statements.

I can kind of understand expats coming here from western democracies with little knowledge of the country and quickly deciding this must be the worst regime ever, anywhere and voting anyone else in surely would be an improvement, but the fact that Argentines forget so easily gives me few reasons to feel optimism for the future of this country.

I'm not intimately familar with any except the K's and I don't know if you are wrong or right. It would be a very sad commentary if the K's are the best that Argentina can produce and I would share your pessimism on the future of the country.

 

[Moxon]

I am not obsessed with you in particular, I just mentioned you as you have been a vocal and pretty much a down the line supporter of everything this government does or says. This has often-ed puzzled me as I know you are not from Argentina. I can understand the Argentinians that support the government because they may not know anything but this type of government. It boggles my mind that anybody exposed to real democracy and decent government like you had in Australia could come here and find anything he likes. Not that Australia or any government is prefect but in comparison Australia would seem perfection itself compared to here.

This seems to be the inclination of many. Why come here and compare this administration with your country of origin - this isn't Australia in terms of governance by any means and never has been. Nor will it become Australia in one election, this will be a long slow process if it ever happens - institutionalised corruption is a dreadful thing and very hard to root out, I can't actually think of any examples off the top of my head where this has been dealt with successfully in the developing world. If you are talking about who you would support or vote for (and this is of course hypothetical for many of us) you can only compare this government with the opposition candidates presented, with their records in opposition and administration, and with previous administrations. The rest is just fantasy.

 

[Moxon]

I'm not intimately familar with any except the K's and I don't know if you are wrong or right. It would be a very sad commentary if the K's are the best that Argentina can produce and I would share your pessimism on the future of the country.

I agree, Argentina deserves better - but when you have an ingrained political culture like the one here I think it can only happen in steps, I consider their administration to have been one step. I'd love to see someone emerge who could take a larger step - maybe we should get an expat group behind Lavagna's candidacy are there any PR people out there?

 

[gouchobob]

This seems to be the inclination of many. Why come here and compare this administration with your country of origin - this isn't Australia in terms of governance by any means and never has been. Nor will it become Australia in one election, this will be a long slow process if it ever happens - institutionalised corruption is a dreadful thing and very hard to root out, I can't actually think of any examples off the top of my head where this has been dealt with successfully in the developing world. If you are talking about who you would support or vote for (and this is of course hypothetical for many of us) you can only compare this government with the opposition candidates presented, with their records in opposition and administration, and with previous administrations. The rest is just fantasy.

I agree corruption and the culture here is going to make this hard to change and I don't think or expect Argentina to be on the same level as Australia or any advanced democracy. I agree it's going to take small steps over time. What's needed are things like an independent and functioning judiciary, congresses that are more than rubber stamps, organized and functioning political opposition. a free press that isn't harassed or threatened, etc. It is possible, just look across the western border to see what is possible. What's not needed are more cult of personality figures like the Perons and the Kirchner want-a-be's. Any politician who isn't talking about reform in these areas is just more of the same and part of the problem.

 

[Moxon]

but when you have an ingrained political culture like the one here

You could quite easily remove the word political from that statement too. I recall another comment on these forums some time ago when someone wondered aghast why Argentines always vote in corrupt thieves. Well, without wishing to be brutal, where do you think Argentine politicians come from, another planet? ...or Argentine society? The same behaviours of bullying, disrespect, lawlessness and corruption, that are decried can be observed in any sector of Argentine society. Anyone been to a consorcio meeting? Anyone recall what the good citizens of Baradero did in response to the suggestion that they should follow the law and wear helmets on motorbikes? Anyone seen a Cronica 'Justicia por mano propia' special? The reason those less than pure specimens keep getting elected is mainly because that is the choice presented to the Argentine electorate. This is a change that needs to happen not just in the political sphere but in all of Argentina.

 

[French jurist]

You could quite easily remove the word political from that statement too. I recall another comment on these forums some time ago when someone wondered aghast why Argentines always vote in corrupt thieves. Well, without wishing to be brutal, where do you think Argentine politicians come from, another planet? ...or Argentine society? The same behaviours of bullying, disrespect, lawlessness and corruption, that are decried can be observed in any sector of Argentine society. Anyone been to a consorcio meeting? Anyone recall what the good citizens of Baradero did in response to the suggestion that they should follow the law and wear helmets on motorbikes? Anyone seen a Cronica 'Justicia por mano propia' special? The reason those less than pure specimens keep getting elected is mainly because that is the choice presented to the Argentine electorate. This is a change that needs to happen not just in the political sphere but in all of Argentina.

A change through the primordial key : Education, no ?

 

[Moxon]

A change through the primordial key : Education, no ?

Sounds like a good start, but I really have no idea - do we have any examples from other parts of the world by which we could apply some kind of template?

I do know that mindlessly attacking this government out of spite without any perspective or any attempt to arrive at an informed opinion won't advance the cause.

 

[orwellian]

Ok first of all, have other users here been notified by Fibertel? I haven't been.

And secondly, Fibertel has been breaking the law, have they not? Then why are some people here accusing the government for enforcing the law? Shouldn't you be criticizing the law instead?

The "illicit services" were dismantled by De Vido, who stated the measure is documented in the 100-/10 Resolution. "Cablevisión acquisited Internet service provider Fibertel without any Communications Secretary authorization, so the merger is considered an illegal one," De Vido explained.

"Cablevisión had been working under an unauthorized license since January 2009," De Vido denounced.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/BreakingNews/View/42687

So they have been breaking the law since Jan 2009! What I'd like to know; has the government been trying to force them to comply with the licensing law before, or is the first time? And were they not given the option to sell the company?

I only know the Scandinavian countries where a minister can be ejected for buying a chocolate bar with public funds (real case).

The person you are referring to is Mona Sahlin. She is currently the party leader of the Social-democrats. She will be the next Prime Minister if they win the elections this year. She was hardly "ejected", whatever you mean by that. And she was cleared from any wrong doing. If anyone tells you this 'chocolate bar' story, most likely you're dealing with a right wing nutter.

 

[Eternalnewbie]

to orwellian: no, I have not been notified about anything by Fibertel or Cablevision, and would drop into a faint astonished if I were. Communicating with and working to resolve issues with customers is not something they have on their plate.

They have lost this customer, which I am sure has them in tears of grief, but not because they are operating "illegally," but because they are a lousy business.