Are The Italians To Blame For Argentina's Demise

[lamarque]

Here's some data about Chile and Argentina.

Lamarque, Wikipedia is fine as long as one checks the sources. Just because its written on Wikipedia doesn't mean it should be discounted.

Figures for Argentina:

http://hdrstats.undp...ofiles/ARG.html

Figures for Chile:

http://hdrstats.undp...ofiles/CHL.html

According to this charts you pass me Argentina is a richer country than chile, anyway as i told you open a diferent topic and there we can discuss, this is not realated to the topic.

 

[PhilinBSAS]

As a percentage of the population, Italians make up a far larger percentage of the population in Argentina than in Brazil (and Australia) - which you know is far more relevant Of course this propaganda technique of obfuscation you employ is quite common in the Political Correct police state.

And if this is a ridiculous proposition then what is the explanation for Argentina's failure? It is a very lazy and an intellectually inferior method to just resort to calling someone a racist then to intelligently dispose of their argument and/or to offer an alternative explanation.

We don't need pseudo intellectual political correctness - save that for your professor in uni.

You are the lazy racist troll Joe and now hiding behind jaunts of "political correctness" doesnt get you out of the fact you are not interested in a serious debate about Argentine culture just about making cheap anti-Italian pops based on racial stereotypes

And who is "we"? Are we talking Ex-pats Hanoi?

So now you are shifting ground and arguing "percentages". Well just scroll back and see mention made of Uruguay - with similar proportions of Italian descendants to Argentina. That doesnt work with your sad little thesis either does it!


Were you a student of mine at Uni - did you graduate? - then you wouldnt get any marks from me. I still do earn money as a VL but never sought a Chair - too tedious to keep relegating students who cant hang together coherent lines of thought. Classroom clowns like you get short shrift

 

[JPinBA]

Isn't it possible that Argentina is held back in it's development by some very powerful lobbies, who don't like a too succesful independant country in the backgarden of the USA?

Milton Friedman's "sado-monetarism" has been official policy for years and still is. It's all about the proper use of weapons of financial destruction.

But I admit that it helps when people are easily corruptable. Guess what? Most people are, especially when they are broke.

So that's how it works, keep them broke and corrupt, and they will do no harm!

There are some interesting video's on YouTube about this subject, with Naomi Klein.

 

[Rich One]

Isn't it possible that Argentina is held back in it's development by some very powerful lobbies, who don't like a too succesful independant country in the backgarden of the USA?

Milton Friedman's "sado-monetarism" has been official policy for years and still is. It's all about the proper use of weapons of financial destruction.

But I admit that it helps when people are easily corruptable. Guess what? Most people are, especially when they are broke.

So that's how it works, keep them broke and corrupt, and they will do no harm!

There are some interesting video's on YouTube about this subject, with Naomi Klein.

The development of a country is to some extent defined by its human resources, Argentina has reached, not surprisingly a similar level of development as Calabria and Southern Italy....!!

 

[cbonanni]

Time for a new thread :

Are the Argentines to blame for their own demise ?

or

When will Argentina accept all her short comings without having to blame everyone else ?

 

[BienTeVeo]

Phil with this post you've just got yourself promoted to Field Marshall of the Political Correctness police.

“Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick
up a turd by the clean end.”

 

[Joe]

You are the lazy racist troll Joe and now hiding behind jaunts of "political correctness" doesnt get you out of the fact you are not interested in a serious debate about Argentine culture just about making cheap anti-Italian pops based on racial stereotypes

And who is "we"? Are we talking Ex-pats Hanoi?

So now you are shifting ground and arguing "percentages". Well just scroll back and see mention made of Uruguay - with similar proportions of Italian descendants to Argentina. That doesnt work with your sad little thesis either does it!


Were you a student of mine at Uni - did you graduate? - then you wouldnt get any marks from me. I still do earn money as a VL but never sought a Chair - too tedious to keep relegating students who cant hang together coherent lines of thought. Classroom clowns like you get short shrift

You continue to resort to juvenile name calling. "Racist", "RACIST!!!" Italians are white for goodness sake. This is a question of national and regional cultures. Is someone that criticizes Nazi German fascism also a racist? Politically Correct Phil or as he is sometimes called "PCP" because his ideas have the intellectual merit of someone on Angel Dust.

"Who are 'we'?", PCP asked. We are the ones that don't run every single thought we have through the filthy filter of Political Correctness.

 

[Joe]

This thread has been very useful in understanding the basis of Argentina's demise. The OP deserves a big 'Helluva Job"!

But where do we go from here?

The answer: Look for other countries that have overcome a Culture of Corruption. My candidate: Singapore. Singapore broke away from the Culture of Corruption that it inherited from it's Malay partner. If Argentina can follow the Singapore development model then Argentina could return to the First World.

CFK could start by inviting senior Singaporian officials as advisers on how to tame corruption. Sometimes by asking the right questions it leads us to an answer and a brighter future!

 

[Matiasba]

To the OP, I strongly recommend a book, The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, is from a german sociologist, Max Weber. Basically stands for a religious component from protestants that explains the spirit of the Capitalism, different from the catholics. Protestants developed some kind of ethic, linked to bussiness, that goes perfectly well with the new capitalist society, while the catholics stay in a more traditional one. That could explain why the protestants countries developed more than catholics.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism



About the italians, it is said that the problem with the immigration in Argentina was, firstly, that the argentine consulates in europe in that time were looking for english and scandinavian and in stead brought spanish and italians, and then, that the ones that came werent educated. On the contrary, they were anarchists, socialists, troublemakers, agitators, with a very combative political spirit, lots of them deported, or had been in jail.
Also the majority of italian immigration went back to Italy, they were called "trabajadores golondrinas" they came here in harvest time, and with the 1890 crisis half of them went to south Brazil. Thats why Brazil had more italian immigration than Argentina (not in percentage), they have stolen lots from us!!

camebriu: I agree with Lamarque, we already talked about Chile and Argentina; although they have a very different socio-economic model, both Argentina and Chile have very similar social indicators. It has always been the south cone, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay, the most developed part of the continent, and it still is. Check out informal job numbers and compare to Peru, Colombia, etc.
About education, I dont guide myself from indicators but from the protests we have in these past years, (do you know Camila Vallejo?) Big protests, riots, thousand and thousand of people protesting noy one day or two, but years!!! Something must be wrong!!!
Lots of chileans come here to study, much more than argentines go to chile to study, so the educational university system is clearly better in Argentina.

 

[Joe]