Cacerolazo (April)

[Gringoboy]

I hope they don't take your advice either! From your post it sounds like you just don't "get" how these protests are doing anything. I find it interesting that you, a documentary filmmaker, see these protests as mucho ruido, pocos nieces. You honestly don't see even just the visual impact of these manifestations? That throngs of hundreds of thousands in the streets all across the country is a visual proof of discontent? You don't hear the banging and the chanting as manifestation of the unhappiness of a huge portion of the population? are you sure you work in film?

Similar reaction from Adri's 16 year old son. He didn't come with us and of course we would never have forced him to.
He was more interested in being in front of his screen and doing what he does.
During dinner later, we talked about the protest which he considered a complete waste of time as in his opinion it would change nothing.
Even more alarming were his feelings of loathing toward his own country and anything connected to it.
Maybe it's his age, but his attitude certainly rang numerous alarm bells for me in many ways.

 

[Montauk_Project]

I hope they don't take your advice either! From your post it sounds like you just don't "get" how these protests are doing anything. I find it interesting that you, a documentary filmmaker, see these protests as mucho ruido, pocos nieces. You honestly don't see even just the visual impact of these manifestations? That throngs of hundreds of thousands in the streets all across the country is a visual proof of discontent? You don't hear the banging and the chanting as manifestation of the unhappiness of a huge portion of the population? are you sure you work in film?

I get the visual impact. I was talking more as an activist with a long history of particpating in US politics and Argentine polictics. Anywhere in the world, when you protest you should have clear demands if you want to make an impact.
I don´t see the clear demands.

But then again it is quite funny--I was watching Duro de Domar which is like a fun version of 678 and everyone was giving advice to the protesters. We almost feel sorry for them as activists. We are now on the third big protest, they get bigger everytime, and the next day nothing really happens. I think it is because if CFK invited a group of 10 into her office and said "what do you want me to do?" no one would know how to answer.
Call early elections? (CFK would most likely win again)
Leave office?
Kill herself?
Investigate corruption?
Put Fariña in jail? (not up to her)
Not reform the judiciary? (a lot of Argentines really want it reformed)
Not have anti-monopoly legislation?
Not reform the constitucion so she can get re-elected? (no plans for this)
stop giving money to "negros de mierda"? (yeah, 170 pesos a month is making them rich)
Let them buy dollars?
I AM REALLY ASKING THIS, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY WANT!

And I am not telling the protesters to shut up. I am saying that I myself was at a protest the day before, but one with CLEAR demands against very specific regulations and in which we all could agree on the main points. I think after a fight we will get what we want--to protect doc filmmaking--I can´t say the same about last nights protests.

In two years there will be re-elections. They can vote her out then and in the elections this fall elect a congress that they like more, it is like 5 months away. That is how democracy works. You can have a lot of visual impact but that doesn´t win elections. Politics is work.

 

[Joe]

It is best to explain this in a way that only a film maker can truly understand. In the following film clip, the inconsistent message of last night's protesters is represented by Private Joker in the film Full Metal Jacket. He has both a Peace Symbol on his jacket and "Born to Kill" written on his helmet. Mantuck Project in this scene, represented by the Colonel, merely points out the inconsistency of these messages, please watch:

https://www.youtube....h?v=KMEViYvojtY

or in the words of the Colonel:

[background=rgb(242, 246, 248)]Well how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the K-team and c'mon in for the big win?[/background]

 

[Gringoboy]

@MontaukProject
I don't see how you cannot see the clear demands, but I do see where you are coming from...up to a point.
But I believe that the people have no other recourse but to take to the streets and send a clear and potent message to this government.
After all, the opposition, such as it is has been totally ineffective in countering the jack boots that seem hell bent on bulldozing all and everything in its way.
In an earlier post I said that we had the impression that the opposition had already been bought in which there may be a grain of truth.
Then this morning we see that they have finally crawled out of their shells and discovered that the people have taken on the mantle of the opposition in their stead.
Very convenient for them of course, but it's not too late to take advantage of this catalyst and run with the ball.
Once these protests gather momentum and garner true support from the opposition, as opposed to lip service, then we may actually see a counterbalance against this regime.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

"We almost feel sorry for them..."

Please, spare us your misplaced sympathies.

I suspect you clearly understand concept of solidarity, consensus building and maintaining momentum towards this years election, but will farcically argue that because two million didnt sit in a committe and draw up a list of objectives that fit within your narrow definition of reasons for legitimate protest, you will write them off with one blythe "you are doing it wrong". Staggering.

I have a relative who last night was out clutching his copy of the constitution, as a senator he worked redrafting it in 1994 in a lengthy consultative process. He sees serious changes to the judiciary, they are unconstitutional, ...but sure according to you he should just suck it up and wait for an election. Breathtaking.

"Most likely win again"...aspirational rather than fact. Based on what I would ask? Pagina 12 opinion polls? Chats with your pals?

"Investigate corruption?"...well, strangely enough we see it as increasingly unlikely she will investigate corruption (multi million dollar illegal expatriation of funds) of which she and her family/cronies are suspected of.We see smoke, we want an investigation. Kind of unlikely though, although god forbid a citizen speak out publically against her as she'll use the state tax agency as a tool for settling personal vendettas.

"Kill hersel"...wow. Thats where we're at in terms of a debate. You can find somebody elses mouth to put those words into thanks all the same.

170 pesos...another straw man as you attempt to smear the opposition. That is not what this protest was about. Has any opposition polotician (macri for example) currently campaigned ahainst this? No. It's just another bogey man constructed by the K apparatchik.

"A lot of argentines really want it reformed.."

Where are your figures for those who support the current removal of the independence of the judiciary? Is this based on a govt sponsored chat in the C5N canteen? I see millions on the street last night who do not want the removal of independence of judiciary. It's unconstitutional. I believe that people will gladly consult on reforms, but suggest that constitutional reform merits some form of public consultation. This govt was not given an mandate to reform the constitution.

As for Christina 2015...well, that kite has been flown by people in the party. Let's wait and see in 2015.

Anti monopoly legislation...i would argue that people want to protect free and independent media rather than hand over control of the media to the current administration. Perhaps your ok with the govt controlling what can be said in press by economists, what adverts papers can run about supermarket prices and having a govt monopoly on the printing press? A fine film maker it is that supports govt interference in the free and independent judiciary and media.

I am aghast that someone could be so dismissive of the citizens of a country protesting to protect their constitution and the freedom of media and independence of judiciary. I will read your response with interest, but in the interests of my blood pressure and the usefulness of the rest of my day lets agree to disagree...in the strongest terms.

 

[Nounou]

Leading on from the above posts, and knowing that CFK is unpopular with certain members of the population (sorry I'm being P,C), who would you guys like to see in power there?
More to the point, is there an active, electable opposition in Argentina?

In my time on this site I have seen many threads taking issue with CFK, the government and their policies....fair enough. But what I don't see is a soulution in the form of an active opposition and policies being offered. Montauk makes a valid point, there must be clear demands.

 

[Dublin2BuenosAires]

Leading on from the above posts, and knowing that CFK is unpopular with certain members of the population (sorry I'm being P,C), who would you guys like to see in power there?
More to the point, is there an active, electable opposition in Argentina?

In my time on this site I have seen many threads taking issue with CFK, the government and their policies....fair enough. But what I don't see is a soulution in the form of an active opposition and policies being offered. Montauk makes a valid point, there must be clear demands.

You're not being PC, you're making vague suggestions that if you dont support the govt your a golpista, which is lazy and belongs to another decade.

The demands are referenced above. They are clear, that you choose to smear and obfuscate is your decision.

I too am interested in potential policies and alliances. I will reserve comment until they actually exist

 

[Nounou]

You're not being PC, you're making vague suggestions that if you dont support the govt your a golpista, which is lazy and belongs to another decade.

The demands are referenced above. They are clear, that you choose to smear and obfuscate is your decision.

I too am interested in potential policies and alliances. I will reserve comment until they actually exist

I was being scarcasic actually, not P.C....obviously it got lost in translation!

I'm asking because I don't live there. Who or what constitutes the opposition, are they electable ?

 

[Jaredberryman]

Personally, I think the protesters should unite under one phrase: "Que se vaya Cristina". Until this group of people leaves, nothing will change. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen.

 

[Rich One]

True none of the requests was for more Employment, Social Security benefits, Unemployment Benefits, food coupons, more housing, stop evictions, etc.

Well nothing will happen SHE (la vieja terca esposa del Tuerto) flew with Mujica to Peru? She twitted Soy Terca y Necia..!! (vieja No?)
As Mae West responded: I'm a Nutcracker? , well there has to be some Nuts to start with!!! :wub: